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You know what they say about assuming something right?
I never really gave it serious thought, but I assumed that a carbine could not shoot that well.
Next trip to the range,[within a coupleof days] I will take one there and sandbag it and see what it can do.
If I shoot within 4-5 inches [or less], you might hear me hoot and holler all the way to your house. LOL:lol:
Well , this winter/spring I took out my 13 carbines and shot / sighted in all of them. No real extream measures were taken for the best accuracy , I shot off a bench with a tool box reat up front I put my hand on , sling was used. Ammo was Winchester WB , PMC , Federal , various LC lots , ( all 110gr ball ) , and handloaded ( 15 gr WW296 ) 110gr FMJ and 103 Gr tracer. The best were 3-inchers or a tad better. The tended to be later era orig. or fresh rebuilds with late sights , and bbl bands with lugs. Prob'ly 5 or 6 would do this. Most would do 4-5 inches including flip sights and type 1 bands. I have one that does 6-inches that I can't seem to do better with. The worst one did 13-15 inches orig. ( rebuilt , M2 conversion) , but a couple of stocks later it was in the 4-5 pile.
Chris
Chris, what was the difference in the stocks? I have a Std Prod MW under 2, that just won't do better than a 10 inch group. Others I have hold a 4-5 and a couple that will get under 4. My Inlands and IBMs do the best and UEFs do the worst. Believe it or not I have a BA barrel 10-43 that is the best.
I have learned one thing, carbines are not the same. I can do better with cast than my Lake City or WCC anytime.
Lee Dipper for the carbine puts out 14gr of 4227.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark W.
FTD, The secret to getting the most out of a carbine for accuracy is the receiver to recoil plate fit. If you want the best possible then you should use a type 3 recoil plate. When the receiver is inserted into the plate the barrel should hang above the barrel channel about a 1/4 of an inch give or take some. The place the hand guard on the stock and secure it to the stock with the barrel band. The type 3 barrel band gives the best support and when you tighten the barrel band screw just make it snug and not tighten it all the way down. Most carbines that don't shoot well do improve with this and in most case quite a bit vetter then they did before.
In my case I thought the full auto bbl was just shot out. When it looked good , I dug deeper. I found my stock had a lot of play in it , the reciever would shift side to side ( yes , side to side) about 1/16 to 1/10 an inch across the recoil plate. I replaced it with an M2 potbelly stock and it went down to about 8 inches. I found that stock allowed front to rear end play , so I replaced it with a second one that tested snug in all directions. That brought it down into the 3-5 range. I found that the closer my carbines were to late specs and good fits , the greater the probility of good 3-inchish groups.
Chris
In my limited experience, for real accuracy and getting the recoil plate to work for you, the stock is the real key. First, forget about the WWII M-1 stocks - as mentioned above they have too much play. I look for a M-2 potbelly. I don't care what the sides LOOK like, I inspect the recoil plate shelf and the bull nose. Everything else in between those two points is space filler. The recoil plate shelf on the stock needs to be clean, UNDAMAGED and not compressed. The bullnose needs to be full, undamaged and not compressed. The band band spring also needs to be in good shape and "bent" at the correct angle. Seat the plate and the metal as is noted on the CMP page. http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf
While I love the looks and history of the original issue stocks (especially the highwoods), I keep a few "shooter" M-2 potbellys for the range. Simply give each carbine a different change of clothes when its their turn to go to the range. That way I get some good shooting in at the range while saving on the wear of the historical stocks. I also keep my HD shooters in their potbellies all the time... never know when the big bad wolf will come blow the house down (yes, I did take my pills today).
No one asked but that is my two cents worth...
Some carbines shoot better than others. I was fortunate in getting a good one; a Winchester that I have loaded for with cast bullets. I use the RCBS 120 grain Round nose with a gas check. I size the bullets to .309" and use 13.5 grains of 4227 powder. Other powders will work as well. Cases must be kept trimmed to the correct and uniform length. Grouping off the bench is consistently 3 inches at 100 yards. No leading or problems with the gas port/piston. I put a slight taper crimp on the finished rounds to ensure good feeding. This combination also works well in my Ruger Blackhawk although the muzzle blast is impressive. Jerome Cooper
What is your OAL on that round? Currently I'm doing the same thing. Lee 120gr w/gas ck, sized .309 and 12.5 gr of 2400.
I have been using 14.7 gr of W-296 with a 110 gr FMJ or RN bullet - I backed off from a 15 gr charge with no noticeable change. I also have used 14 gr of 4227 with good results.