My first go at reloading for .303 Brit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buntlineguy

Many Enfields that have seen a lot of use are a little worn or corroded where the bullet enters the barrel.

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You can make that "Many old service rifles" - it's not just an Enfield problem.
As a simple rule, I establish the OAL that results in the bullet just touching the lands, then reduce that by 0.5mm (20 thou) as a practical repeatable value, where inevitable production variations will not cause wide pressure and muzzle velocity variations. Using RCBS competition dies, excellent Lapua bullets, and quality Geco cases with a weight spread of less than 1 gn, measured velocity 5 meters from the muzzle is 833 meters/sec +/- 5 meters/sec for my 30-06 ammo. I have not yet done the measurements for 303. Don't try to get much closer to the lands - if you do, the tiny variations in OAL will then cause a wider velocity spread.

Having worked out this optimum OAL, you then have to check whether such a cartridge would actually fit into the magazine! For some rifles, the answer is no, and you just have to shorten the OAL until the cartridges fit - or use the rifle as a single loader (which is what one usually does here in competition shooting). You also have to make sure that there is still enough of the cylindrical section of the bullet (about 1 caliber length is minimum) in the case neck for secure seating. As a result, you may well find that your optimum OAL is only feasible with flat-base bullets, even flat-base round-nose bullets, and boattails are ruled out for the optimum OAL.

Patrick

B*gger! I´ve already got 11 re-loading cycles out of S&Bs! But I hate them anyway `cos the base doesn´t fit in the case holder when it´s set for any other make. I totally agree about boat tails.

Thanks Patrick - the points about it fitting in the mag and the minimum depth for proper seating hadn't occurred to me.

Re the latter (and boat tails) - is that something where the factory crimp die might help you get away with a little less depth than otherwise?

Villiers - good to hear the S&Bs aren't necessarily 100% trash.

My long-time range buddy passed away earlier this year. We spent close to 25 years on the local rifle ranges, messing about with an eclectic assortment of military surplus rifles of the 1890 - 1945 period.

He had spent some time in Scotland, just shortly after the end of the Second War, and was amazed by the long, long lists of casualties in the churches, casualties from the Boer War. A lot of troops in that war were recruited around Glasgow. As he got older and had a bit of money and the time to experiment, he determined to find out just HOW good the rifles of that war actually were, when shot with good ammunition. He was the only reloader I knew who did not possess a powder measure. He used an RCBS scale, a silver spoon, a cat-food tin and a folded bit of paper.... and he loaded the most accurate sporting ammunition I have ever used. His idea of "adequate" was well under 1 MOA; his idea of "good" was bullets on top of each other. He used scoped rifles with anything up to 24x to prove the ammunition, then it was run in the military rifles. And we used a LOT of sand-bags.

We were able to get 1 inch at 100 yards with a completely-original SMLE III*, NRF 1918. The load was the same 180-grain load I gave earlier in this thread.

Using the same load, we got 7/16-inch 2-shot groups from a Lithgow 1918 which had escaped being fired since it was made. It had had bedding problems, which we cured.

Using the same load, we repeatedly got 5/16-inch 2-shot groups, sometimes with touching or overlapping bullets, from DA 426, one of the early Rosses which had come off the old HMS Canada.

We found (as did the British, almost a century earlier) that nearly ALL Lee-Enfield rifles prefer a .312" bullet and that they show a definite preference for flat-base projectiles. We found that this holds for ANY rifle with Enfield rifling, including the US M-1917, of which we did serious testing on a dozen specimens over the years. At one time we had four M-1917s at the range at the same time, with 2 more completed testing and 2 more waiting their turn.

And we found that the .303 shoots its very best at a muzzle velocity of about 2250 ft/sec with the 180 bullet. Again, we simply confirmed what the guys at Enfield worked out in 1909 and 1910, while they were designing the Mark VII Ball round.

We found that the Ross does indeed "shoot harder" than a Lee-Enfield, confirming what commonly is believed a myth from the Great War. That extra 5 inches of Ross barrel gives you almost exactly 100 ft/sec over the other rifles, given that identical ammunition is used.

And we found that the Moisin-Nagant rifle also prefers a .312 bullet, although some will shoot well with even a .311". The loading-book recommendation of a .308" bullet is utterly hopeless.

We found that Mausers and Moisin-Nagants can be made to perform very well with boat-tailed bullets and that these can be a very real advantage at range. (We were shooting out to 800 yards, BTW, depending on the rifle; he REALLY liked Mausers for long-range.)

For the last year or so, I have been playing with the C.E. Harris "Universal" load for military rifles. Harris determined that most military-size rifles can be shot with 13 grains of Red Dot shotgun powder and a 180-grain CAST bullet and they will attain roughly similar exterior ballistic performance. They should get about 1800 ft/sec; accuracy will be about 2 MOA, making the rifles effectual out to about 300 yards or metres with a relatively mild, inexpensive loading which generates only mild recoil.

Hope some of this might help.
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Good thread, I really enjoyed reading it, thanks to all involved.

G'day,
I shoot fullbore 303 and definatly had the same problem with S&B brass, head seperations after 2 loadings, we use sierra 174gn Match King prodjectiles and load them to the same specs as Mk7 ammo with the prodjectile seated 50 thou or just under from the lands. With this combination you can still get bulls at 1000 yards.
My rifle has been rebuilt by a local 303 expert using a Lithgow heavy barrell and the rubber o'ring technique on the muzzle cap. It is very accurate.
Cheers.

I've just seen this thread and thought I'd add my 2c worth in regards to reloading a Mk3. No1 as I've got 1 with a heavy barrel.
I've set my OAL at the same length as the original military round and use 180gn Sierra Pro Hunter pill with 45.5 gns of AR2209 and this produces around a 2" group at 100yds using the battle sights over a rest.
I've also got a hold of 180gn Highland pills that I'm going to try as well,regards

All very interesting! And I agree with most of it. But I haven´t experienced the S&B case failures. Their cases last as long as most of the others (I only neck size). But the trouble with S&B cases (and some others) is that the rims are all different sizes so that my Forster Co-Ax press has to be re-set for different batches. And I agree that my LE No. 5 doesn´t like boattails ... nor soft tipped bullets that often seize on the ramp (I´ve tried different mags and there´s no improvement). I do use a crimp die .. but not set tightly.

I recently acquired a No4Mk2 and after shooting 4 boxes of Federal 180 gr ammo, I picked up a set of 303 Br. dies (full length resizing die). On the first reloading, I ended up with 4 of the first 20 rounds fired having complete case head separations. I scrapped the rest of the brass. I posted on Canadian Gun Nutz about the issue and was searching for a No3 bolt head. I had the rifle checked out and the head space was not the problem. One of the CGN members got me on the right path and I acquired a 303 neck sizing die.
As others have said on this thread, neck size only and segregate the brass by rifle it was originally fired in. It will save you a lot of grief.
I also agree with the O-ring process recommended by many on here for fire forming the brass to the chamber of your particular rifle.

I have had better luck with remington brand 303 brass as compared to the federal for reloading. Some of the remington is now on the 5th reloading and no issues.

I would think that the Lee Collet sizing die would be a lot easier on brass when compared to standard dies even a regular neck sizing die. Dragging that mandrill back up through the case has to do a lot of stretching of the case.