Questions for Capt. Laidler on late Fazakerley No 4 production:

I recently won a No4 MKII that is as described by Frederick303 and am trying to find out what I can about it. Original date and place of manufacture, location of FTR etc

Anyone able to help?

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You have a 1955 No4 Mk2 that was made in 1955 at Fazakerley and then FTR'd in 1957 at Fazakerley.

I wonder if this rifle was used or damaged during the Suez crisis and had to be rebuilt at Fazakerley as a result.

I don't think the 1957 rifles were actually FTR'd; they mostly appear to be new-made rifles. The "FTR" was probably an accounting device to cover a general use-up of parts at Fazakerley after the end of contract production.

You could be right..It certainly looks like new. I've got a "UF" 55 Fazakerley and this one looks as nice, except for a few gouges/dents, as the '55.

I guess anything is possible, but it seems very strange that a rifle that did not go through a Factory Thorough Repair would be marked FTR. Maybe PL can shed a little light on this.

I'm inclined to agree with Thunderbox on this and knowing a bit about the contract/procurement system. The ROF's don't have to run at a profit of course but if their contract is to make 1,000 new rifles, then they make 1,000 new rifles. If there's an over-run say, of 200 rifles worth of parts then they're stuck with them so the obvious thing to do is number them up, make them into complete rifles and send them back to Ordnance. Not as new, but as part of the refurbished/FTR rifles programme they've been involved in.

I know from the big Ordnance depots factory FTR programmes that we were involved in at 40 Base Workshops that we'd get in, say 600 rifles and 150 would be rusted out heaps of tat so Ordnance would get back 450 'brand new' FTR'd rifles back plus paperwork from the R+I office to account for the destruction of the remaining 150. That paperwork would probably go straight into the bin

Likewise at the big Ord factory. 1,000 come in for FTR, 300 are destroyed as worthless scrap, add in the over production and a) you've got rid of the overproduction b) the MoS are happy with your output figures c) now everyone can concentrate on the forthcoming L1A1 rifle and L2A3 SMG project - except that they didn't!

The barrels that were left over formed the spare parts pool for the rest of the life of the rifle - they all seemed to be F55 up until I saw the last new ones a couple of years ago. And the remaining accountable 'master component' mk2 bodies, that couldn't be sent to Ordnance because the body was NEVER available as a spare part don't forget (no they never were, regardless of what anyone has told you....... The number in the parts list is just a part number and a list of parts. Not a list of AVAILABLE parts), went to Enfield to be resurrected as the new build L39.

You realise of course that when the new L42 was first mooted, it was going to be based on a 'new build' Mk2 rifle and body based on the stock piles of Mk2 Fazakerley bodies. However, while the idea was good, it wasn't that simple in practice and it was even LESS simple once the accountants had done the sums! Bless 'em..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Likewise at the big Ord factory. 1,000 come in for FTR, 300 are destroyed as worthless scrap, add in the over production and a) you've got rid of the overproduction b) the MoS are happy with your output figures

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I want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying, when rifles were sent to ROF-F to be FTR'd, they would scrap a certain amount of rifles and replace them with the overproduction?

Has one of us missed something in the translation somewhere............ If you read it again TLV, they 'd scrap them if they were scrap as in 'rusted out heaps of tat' or 'worthless tat' or as we say, Beyond Economic Repair. Nobody would scrap them if they were serviceable/repairable. Obviously, if they were all gauged up and considered serviceable after repair, then none would be scrapped. Or have I missed something

After rereading my post, I did not mean to suggest that a serviceable rifle would be scrapped, very poor wording on my part. To clarify what I was trying to ask, were the BER rifles replaced with these overproduction rifles - the "F 57 FTR" marked rifles?