Collecting on the cheap.

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Originally Posted by CRNeophyte

This the "Mad Minute" rifle right?

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Wrong. The Mad Minute is a peculiarly British invention, and some Bisley meetings include a Mad Minute competition. It was devised for Enfield rifles, as they have a pretty high firing rate with the 10-round magazine. Look it up on the Internet and you should be able to find video clips. The real aces in this discipline can fire off an astonishing number of shots while I would still be fumbling with the charger clips. But to count, the shots must hit the target, not just be fired off wildly. So it's a bit like a very high speed silhouette match, if there were such a thing.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Wrong. The Mad Minute is a peculiarly British invention

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In actual fact, I believe he was referring to the photo of my first milsurp pictured above his post which just happens to be an SMLE.

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Originally Posted by CRNeophyte

Well, my initial goals and interests are focused on three rifles, the enfield, the Garand and the Mosin Nagant

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CRNeophyte,

If I was on your side of the pond, it would be the Garand and a M1 Carbine, but going back to what Sarge says have you an Idea on the time frame, you would like to collect from, also any specific interest in what country etc, the other thing is it to collect and shoot, or a cheap Milsurp to shoot ?
Like Patrick says, you can end up with a celler full of leftovers and when you count the cost you will curse yourself, as you could of saved and got something that will give you years of pleasure and something that you could move on with no loss.

I,m an Enfield man myself (but have a soft spot for the M1903) I find the best quality rifles are pre war or post war, regarding Enfields the best SMLE for quality and finish was the Commercial ones made around the 1920,s (just my opinion).

You mention the Nagant, I,m looking for one myself but a sniper version, there was a time when the place was flooded with them but they seem to have dried up and a lot now are garage builds, built with a scope off ebay etc.

I have a few nice rifles but most of mine have been saved from death row and restored I,ve also converted some to different calibres etc, so the collecting bit isnt there but they are excellent shooters that dont carry the "original" tag and most of them done on a shoestring budget.

One thing is for certain, whatever Milsurp you decide upon, then your on the best forum for any advice or help.

Clash,
Thanks for your input. i admit to being hung up on the mosin due to its affordability. what would you think a Finnish would go for? i saw a hex receiver on AIM surplus for around 120, is that in line with your perceptions?

turns out aim was sold out at 110, JGSales however had them for 150,

Mosin-Nagant 91/30 Hex Receiver rifle, Russian, 7.62x54R caliber. Used.

THanks for your time Clash :D

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Right, I was referring the to enfield though rather unclearly. I saw a top shot episode while i was drifitng off to sleep while they were doing a mad minute challenge. Looks fun!

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JMoore, you are correct sir : D

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BigDuke6,
Thank you for your input. i am between both collecting for pride in ownership as well as enjoyment of shooting them at the range. I would like to have original set guns when i am in a place financially to support that kind of habit. Today however i would like a cheap shooter in a caliber that isnt .22. My step son and i enjoy action movies, usually based in WWII or Vietnam. and he prides himself in social studies with his weapon knowledge.

I consider the big three to be Mosin Nagant, Enfield and a Garand. all of them are awesome battle implements and deserve respect. The lowest grade Garand i can find online is around 600, which will not be possible at this time. I have not shopped for an Enfield and i have shopped a little for the Mosin (three or four online websites, no pawn shops or gun stores. Sadly they'll be closed tomorrow morning.)

Is it complicated to convert these service rifles to other calibres? i'd be interested in being able to modify an enjoyable shooter between 7.62x54r and 7.62x51/.308 winchester. depending on which was cheaper that day.

CRNeophyte,

Your on the right track, because this is the best of the forums to be on. The guys here are very knowledgeable and are very willing to share. I know because they have helped me out a lot. Just ask. One thing you mite do is to Google CMP and you will come up with the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The M1 Garand can be bought from them starting at $ 525.00 and up + $ 24.95 shipped right to your door. This is a field grade and they go up from there. I know this may be more than you want to spend but you will get a Rifle with all USGI parts and has been checked out. Best if you are close enought to go to one of their stores and just ask the guys to help you. I went with the HRA Service Grade for $ 625.00 plus shipping and WOW in 26 days I had a very very nice M1 Garand at my door. It was hard for me to come up with that much money. I know were you are coming from about the money. Check it out, get on that forum also and learn. I spend all night trying to learn all I can, so if I see a rifle some place I will know a little about what questions to ask so I don't get ripped off.
The best of luck to you.
Dick

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Originally Posted by CRNeophyte

Is it complicated to convert these service rifles to other calibres?

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That would be more-or-less feasible, depending on the type, and was often done in the past, mainly because of the difficulty of obtaining the right ammo. These days, there is so much reloading gear available and ammo from suppliers such as PRVI and specialist suppliers, that the "hard-to-get ammo" argument is outdated. Conversions are still common in countries such as France, where there are restrictions on having rifles in military calibers.

But it costs money and makes the gun worthless as a collector's item. Forget it.

Here is what you want to do Neo. Get that Mosin hex. Make sure it is a numbers matching one. Shoot it. If you like it and can stand the recoil then keep collecting. If not maybe Milsurp collecting is not for you.
I personally loved the recoil from my first Milsurp rifles. That is how I have almost every Rilfe used in WWII. The major types anyway.

So if you like that one then here is what I recommend you do.

Get yourself a good bore light. This is a small flashlight with an optical device on the end to allow you to see down the bore of a firearm. The only way to figure out a good bore is to look at a lot of them to learn what sharp lands and grooves are.
This is the best way to start collecting milsurps. If you do this you will thank me for it in the future.

Next, what to buy you are asking?
You say you want to start with lower cost rifles. So you want to get your Hex Mosin, then I say find a nice Mosin M38. These are going up in price so get one now. Then a good M44 Mosin. Then a M38 Finnish Mosin. These are extremely fine rifles if you ask me and you should own one.
After that you should have learned what to look for in condition. You will have to do like I do. Hit some pawn shops, gun shops, gun shows, flea markets. Find out as much as you can before hand by purchasing some books about milsurp rifles.
You will eventually want a nice example of the Enfields, Mausers, Arisakas, Carcanos and most importantly the American Garands (the rifle that won WWII) the M1 Carbines, the Springfields.
Believe me my friend I was in your position once and I know how hard it is to get started in the right direction. If you have any other questions feel free to ask me.

Capt Mil COll,
Thanks for your honest assessment, I am willing to accept that this may not be for me, but it is most definitely attractive. I have plans to purchase a firearm guide from amazon,

2012 Standard Catalog of Firearms: The Collector Reference Guide: Jerry Lee: 9781440216886: Amazon.com: Books

I own a savage 64 .22lr caliber plinker, total joy to shoot, and it unfortunately colors my perception of what it should cost to go shooting at 4-5 cents a round.


im going to look up some how too videos on youtube about checking bore condition. thanks for the nudge in the right direction.


Do you have a favorite model of bore light? i have considered some of the DIY scope cameras i've seen at the hardware store, but that does seem to be a little overkill and im not sure they'd fit in the bores in the first place!

I will have to research a few of the weapons you've listed. I get a little shy at the pawnshops and in person venues because i know i am at least six or seven weeks away from making a purchase. Is this a breech of etiquette?

Update :
I went out to wally and got the 6 dollar winchester model bore light. once the little one's curiosity is asleep for the night i'll pull out the plinker and see if i can determine the rifling with it and try to practice using the tool. Thanks for all the advice.

You also have to remember if your going to shoot these wonderful rifles, handguns and probably shotguns you will need a heck of a lot of different ammo to do it. Just something else to think about.