Here she is.... The one I can't get to run reliably.... What do I have....

Uh oh, here it is with my Dad's Carbine. Which is another one I could never get running 100%. I think his is an IBM receiver with an inland barrel?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-1.jpg
Interesting, UMC seems to be dead on at 100 where that last one was high.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...523EWSNR-1.jpg
I can blame my Dad for the lousy groupings. hehehhehe

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3433DXRO-3.jpg
That's my Dad's carbine. Rear sight is a little different.

---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

I'll see if I can find targets from when I shot it at longer distances. I don't know if I saved those though.

Thanks for that target USGI!!!!

You experience is very reminiscent of the behavior of my carbine. Is the stock slightly warped? The barrel channel on my M1 was warped to the left, and the system was binding on the left side of the cut-out, while the front end of the barrel was being held over by the barrel band. Not surprisingly, it would not group satisfactorily.

When I discovered what was wrong, I freed up the barrel channel as far as possible, and shaved a touch off the system cut-out, until the rubbing marks had disappeared and there was no sideways force on the barrel. I fettled it until, with barrel band removed, the barrel would sit in the center of the channel at the front, where the band is fitted, and sat up just enough that it requires one-finger pressure to make it bottom in the channel. When the barrel band is applied there is thus just enough torque on the back end to stop any rattling.

Fed with Remington UMC FMJ ammo, this carbine, that a couple of weeks before could not group at all, won the BDMP Hessen championship first time out.

So have a look at the fitting of the system and barrel in the stock. And don't start carving up the foresight until you have checked that and tried the UMC ammo. It would have been really dippy of me not to have won because I was being a cheapskate with the ammo. These days, the petrol one uses up to get to competitions costs more than the ammo you shoot when you are there.

I'm starting to break it down. I don't think it's rubbing on the stock. It is pretty close. On the right side, right where the barrel band attaches. But it appears to have movement. But it's much closer on that side. It's hard to tell once you put the barrel band on.

Also, the recoil spring is only 10" long. Is it supposed to be 10-1/4" with the guide or without? Because it's 10-1/4" with. But the spring itself is only 10" long. I swear I bought that one new though. Maybe I didn't. Hmmm..........

The front sight can be moved by fabricating a sight key that the part above the level of the barrel is offset slightly to the side. I fabricated one for a friend years ago using some mild steel and a file. It worked very well. Took about 20-30 minutes start to finish, and is easier than re-indexing a barrel and messing with head space. If you are not in a hurry, I'll fabricate one for you. I am busy for the next week or so, but after that I should have some time. Send me a PM. Anyone got a spare sight key I can use for reference?

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

I bought a new one from Fulton Armory awhile back, and it was less than 10," so I think they might have take offs they are selling. The 10 1/4" measurement is without the guide. The spring is degraded if it is 10" or less. I think Chestnut Ridge Supply has new USGI recoil springs still. The last one I got from them was 10 1/4".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

The front sight can be moved by fabricating a sight key that the part above the level of the barrel is offset slightly to the side. I fabricated one for a friend years ago using some mild steel and a file. It worked very well. Took about 20-30 minutes start to finish, and is easier than re-indexing a barrel and messing with head space. If you are not in a hurry, I'll fabricate one for you. I am busy for the next week or so, but after that I should have some time. Send me a PM. Anyone got a spare sight key I can use for reference?

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

I bought a new one from Fulton Armory awhile back, and it was less than 10," so I think they might have take offs they are selling. The 10 1/4" measurement is without the guide. The spring is degraded if it is 10" or less. I think Chestnut Ridge Supply has new USGI recoil springs still. The last one I got from them was 10 1/4".

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Wow, that is awful awful nice of you. I'm not really understanding what it is though. And I don't know if I want to put you through that. I would like to get her running better before I worry about that. As you can see from the pictures, it's OK at the shorter ranges. And shooting longer would just be for fun at this point. Actually, shooting it at all is for fun. So, let me see if we can get it running good.

You know what, I think that's where I got that spring. Fulton. I'm not very impressed with the prices you pay. I remember ordering parts here and there for these guns from them in the beginning. But I suppose I should say that I'm not 100% sure that's where this spring came from. But I have a feeling....

There is another situation with my carbine that may be affecting function. Someone drilled and tapped it. And now, taking a closer look, which I think I always knew but hoped it wouldn't make a difference, you can see that it looks like they tried to repair it, or fill it. And the rear hole has created a bump or imperfection on the inside of the receiver in the leg recess/slide area. Here:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E8353E2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E9653E2-1.jpg
What do you guys think. Would that affect function? When I manually slide the bolt, you can't feel it at all, but there is definitely metal protruding. Albeit a very small amount.

I figured I'd just throw the other pics at you for the heck of it.

Have no clue who made that trigger housing BE-B?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

S on the hammer
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-2.jpg

SW on the sear
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

W or M on the other side of hammer
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

Op slide
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

I really don't think I need to take the gas system apart. It moves freely and spins. It isn't as loose as a goose, but a tap on the barrel/receiver gets it to fall out
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-2.jpg

Were bolts marked? I don't see a mark anywhere
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-2.jpg

Recoil plate
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

That hump could affect it by slightly retarding the rearward impulse. I would clean it out with a dremel, and make it smooth. I would not be surprised at all if you got the spring from Fulton. Maybe they have a special on "10 inch recoil springs". As for the sight key, if I can get my hands on a loose one that I can use for comparison, I'll mess around with it. I really don't want to pull the sights of of either of my carbines to get one!

BTW, I see lots of carbon. Have you been shooting Wolf steel cased? That stuff is really dirty and unreliable. It is also hard on extractors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

That hump could affect it by slightly retarding the rearward impulse. I would clean it out with a dremel, and make it smooth. I would not be surprised at all if you got the spring from Fulton. Maybe they have a special on "10 inch recoil springs". As for the sight key, if I can get my hands on a loose one that I can use for comparison, I'll mess around with it. I really don't want to pull the sights of of either of my carbines to get one!

BTW, I see lots of carbon. Have you been shooting Wolf steel cased? That stuff is really dirty and unreliable. It is also hard on extractors.

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I don't have a dremel. Hmmmmm....... Maybe I can wrap some sandpaper around something and see if I can't smooth it down some.

I've never shot wolf. What I remember shooting a lot of are: UMC, WWB, and I remember I had some AE. I think I also shot some magtech. Yeah, I haven't cleaned it since the last time I shot it. Back then, I had a session with it, I wasn't feeling well, and I put it away and hadn't shot it since. That was probably 3 years ago. And I know I had some failures at the time and I was irritated. Plus, I've been battling lymes disease for the last, well, long time and I hadn't been shooting as much. So it just got put to the side. When I did take the time to shoot, I took something that wasn't going to frustrate me and wouldn't need so much attention.

But I've been feeling a little better, praise the LORD and have been very nostalgic this last year about my Grandpa serving and giving his life in WWII. And I always loved the carbine, just didn't like that mine was giving me fits.

ABPOS, your Standard Products is a good looking one. Your barrel date looks like 10-43. what's your serial number?

2,059,xxx. What's yours?

I like yours too. Thank you. Personally, I'm glad you settled on deciding to carry one. I think it's overlooked as a viable weapon. I don't dislike AR's, but so many people act like it's the only thing to get the job done. Yet other choices have served people well for a long time.

I agree that the bump and drilling/tapping could be part of the function thing. Rather than sanding, why not just take a punch and small hammer and give the offending bump a whack from the inside. It should push out and end that part. To find out if the barrel is out of index is easy. Set sights to zero and align the rear sight with center mark. Put a zeroing target up or a target with a vertical line. Your rifle should print on the center line, or not more than the bullet width left or right. If you're out then the barrel needs a turn slightly left or right. Using an angle meter eliminates all guess work. Wrenches are needed. More on that if required. The actual zero of elevation is layed out in the FM and is available for the actual standard acceptable. You have the right idea about sorting out the function first.

I don't believe you need to part out this gun, the parts are interchangeable and should work no matter what. I think it may also be ammo related. I too wish I was just a bit closer, it probably wouldn't take that much to sort this one out...