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I'm still a novice with reloading, so you'll have to bare with me on this. Hornady makes a 95 grain A-max bullet. Would it make sense to load this bullet under Hornady's weakest recommended load (considering powder strength AND volume) and expect about the lowest chamber pressure? That was my plan.
-2fit
I`m not real sure but that is a great question. I`m a novice myself at this and anything to do with reloading i simply go to my friend`s house and work with him to get supplies.Then I pay him to reload bullets for me, which works out for both of us seeing as how he likes to see any "new" rifles I buy at gun shows from time to time. So far he has been reloading 7.7 mm Jap ammo for my arisaka and now he is starting to gather the supplies for the vetterli vitali. I`ll get his opinion on the subject and repost anything I find regarding reloads for this old gun in the future for all to enjoy.
I sold mine at the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors show last Saturday for $ 125.00. Nothing too remarkable but nice clean, shiney bore. No bayonet.:)
Hallo everybody.
About the price: here in Italy a 70/87/15 vetterli in decent conditions fetches from 450 to 700 Euros (585-:-910 USD), I think these rifles are well made and the Army wanted the "new" 1891 mainly because everione else had one (but some had the good sense to wait like the Germans), I have never heard of accidents happening shooting these rifles in their times and usually are made with very good materials and wokmanship for their time, the same can't allways be said for the 1891 (mannliker-Carcano) the barrel in particular is of simple carbon steel and subject to deformation if overheated.
The name "Terribile" was given to the rifle during I WW because it was used mainly by the Territorial Militia the "Milizia Territoriale" was IRONICALLY called "La Terribile" that means Terrible/terrifying and has no reference to a presumed dangerousness of the rifle itself.
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Originally Posted by csan50
That just goes to show: if you want to make a joke, it is important to use the :D or else it may be taken seriously!
Claudio, the quoted price supports my observation that prices in Italy are much higher than in Germany. Thanks to "Terribile" these rifles will only fetch about a third of that price in Mauserland, similar to the previously quoted dollar figure (125), but in Euros.
I think the same can be said for America too. They tend to bring about $110-$170 in decent shape by what i`ve seen at local gun shows. I got mine for $125 in decent shape with a bayonet so I feel I got kinda lucky. I think popularity will catch up eventually once there are no more WW1 rifles left on market for everyone and all that will be left are the 70/87/15`s. Here`s to positive thinking!
I have used reduced loads in several of my rifles. A big benefit is reduced recoil and well as pressure. Here is what Hogdon says about their reduced loads:
Hodgdon Powder Company developed the following reduced loads for use on deer and similarly sized game animals. The bullets chosen were originally designed for single shot pistols and their lower velocities. These rifle loads have been developed to closely approximate those pistol velocities, resulting in similar performance on game animals. Thus,
producing loads effective to 200 yards with minimal recoil.
H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on this website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet
weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.
6.5 Carcano Reduced Loads
Attachment 38723
"Reduced Loads For 6.5 Carcano"
Thank you, good sir! That is awesome! I feel that I can shoot my Vetterli with confidence now.
One further cautionary note. These rifles have been in civilian hands for decades following military service and were often subjected to loads which they were never designed to withstand. The original BP round developed around 24,000 psi, whereas MILSUP 6.5 varies somewhat btwn 40 - 42K psi. During WWI everyone was chronically short of arms and virtually all of the European parties converted stocks of obsolete BP rifles to their current smokeless round as an expedient of war. A rifle marginally capable of handling a given round is better than issuing sharp sticks.
When buying one, you must consider its prior use as well as your own intended use. Metal fatigue is cumulative and prior use over the past 130 years or so is most often a total unknown. Too many of the ones on the market have cracks in the locking lugs, which warrant careful examination before using any load as well as periodic reexamination. While that is true of any rifle, it is particularly true of those BP rifles converted to smokeless for use in WWI....whether a Gras, Berdan II, Vetterli or whatever.
that`s a great point. I have seen BP rifles of that age with some cracks in them but never thought much about that. I did check my rifle out and there were no obvious cracks on the outside or in where the bullet would be met by the firing pin so I think it can shoot but for now I`m just going to use it as a beautiful display piece on my desk at home (granted the desk is a very long antique desk that my uncle gave us before his passing).