Thanks Hooked. I find it to be pretty classy too. I wish I knew the history of this one for sure. Was it engraved when new? later on? Seems odd to have that work done on a rifle with beat up wood.
...who knows...lol
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Thanks Hooked. I find it to be pretty classy too. I wish I knew the history of this one for sure. Was it engraved when new? later on? Seems odd to have that work done on a rifle with beat up wood.
...who knows...lol
How about the 8x54 Krag-Jorgensen?
Hey Bruce. Yeppers, tried one of those..first "obsolete" round I ever made. Felt cool to do! Tried firing one ( sandbags and string pulled trigger :slap:)
Anyway, that's how I learned I need a fatter bodied case. Watta buldge!
Thanks
Zradix, I do not think that the 1.7" given for the new shoulder height is accurate enough.
The shoulder height for the 8x50R is 1.51", and the shoulder height of the 8x50R case in the photo is almost as high as the point indicated for the mystery cartridge. The difference is surely not as much as 0.19" ? The new shoulder is a long way short of the 1.775" of the .284 Winchester. It is much closer to the 8x50R.
And in fact, the shoulder height for the 8x56RM30S ( the so-called Hungarian Mannlicher cartridge) is 1.54 in the book I have.
I know this is a bit tricky to measure, but I suspect that this is a case of double conversion:
First - most of the M95s were indeed converted by the Austrians and Hungarians to the 8x56R. (The original 8x50s are now comparatively rare, and command a higher price in the collecting market)
Second - whoever bought the converted rifle discovered that the cases for the 8x56R are rare and costly. So the bolt was swapped for one from the later WWII German conversion to 8x57 rimless, in order to use the 284 cases - as you have now discovered.
This may sound like a wild(cat) theory, but it is the only solution I have found that fits the observed facts. Anything other than the 8x56R, whether rimmed or rimless, is either too wide at the base or too narrow at the shoulder.
Please check the dimensions as accurately as you can, and post them again!
Hi Patrick.
You have some interesting ideas. I certainly admit I have a hard time figuring where the shoulder is on this case. It has such a gently rounded shoulder.
I've included some pics. One shows my ?? brass next to an 8x50r. The others are the brass in question with the calipers set at 1.6",1.65",& 1.7".
I would also like to add that the 8x50r brass I have, which is formed from 7.62x64r by buffalo arms and has not been shot, has a shoulder ht of 1.563".
I hadn't measured that brass till just now. I'd dare say it wasn't made to specs....however the head of this brass does have a domed shape to it.
I do get 1.51" from the inside of the rim to the shoulder...wonder if this is bad brass...?:confused:
Thank you all for your help on this.:thup:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8236b99d-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...14e0ec1a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...baac29d4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6f544ced-1.jpg
I think you really need to do a chamber casting to find out what the true dimensions are with this conversion. Just might stop a lot of headaches for all involved with it.lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zradix
It certainly does. In fact, there is such a curious ripple at the top of the shoulder that I wonder if a proper chamber reamer was used at all.
Caution: If you make a chamber cast, this ripple may make it well-nigh impossible to get the cast out again without driving it from the muzzle end.
I was kinda thinking along the same lines... The fire formed case shoulder looks a lot like my 8x56R brass from my M95 converted... A LOT. Very gentle and sloping. The 8x56R is about the only thing that comes to mind that the shoulder looks like that that comes quickly to my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
And maybe someone decided to see what else they could use (rimless) to get cheap brass, and changed the bolt head to match...
Also agree on a chamber cast. Might also slug the bbl and see if it is really .323 or the 8x56R .329-.330...
Thank you.
I did slug the barrel. It'll take the .323. Actually could stand to use a gas check type bullet as it seems a tad oversized.
I've recently looked at some 8x56r brass. Needless to say I wasn't overjoyed to see they weren't close enough in size to work.
I do have some wax I can make a cast from. Just not looking forward to the mess I'm sure I'll create as I don't know the proper way to do it.
Guess I have some more reading to do.
Have to admit, with the cost of custom dies and all, I'm seriously thinking of having the chamber reamed to .284 Win. and making life simple.
Cost a bit more up front. After speaking with a couple smiths, seems $200 is average. ( that sound reasonable to you guys?).
At least I won't have to go through the fire forming process. Might have to run lighter loads...
Thanks again for your help and insight. You all are really helping me out here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zradix
If the dimensions are usable, I would be inclined to agree that a professional reaming to .284 will be more satisfying than eternal fiddling with wierd cases.