What bayonet would be correct with my 1918 Lithgow SMLE

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

And to add to Peters statement on Markings: If you send me any bayonet of your choice.
I, will put ANY unit markings or serial numbers you desire upon them!.............

You could have a VERY rare British Parachute Regiment marked 1890 issue Lee Metford if you wanted one!.......:lol:

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You mean my 1888 issued to Lieberstrand Adolf Hitler with the SS runes and AH carved into the hilt may not be real :-(

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 AM ----------

Peter

I did wonder if the Australians worked differently, as I coudl see all sorts of problems, reworks, lost blades etc. messignup the distribution, but then I do have a reworked Australian Twin seam that was kept together during Korean refurbishment and all the parts phosphated and put back together which woudl take a bit of care. I also Have Norwegian rework where the original matchign numbers still together with matchign Norwegian Airf force numbers - way too much time on peoples hands.

Keep in mind that the rifle has been reworked. It is highly unlikely that there can ever be a specific date and maker bayonet that it was issued with, any date or maker would be fine, especially with the WW2 re-work date. It is also a fact that Australian rifles were issued to British, Canadian and Indian troops and Australian troops were issued British and Indian-made rifles and bayonets depending what was in the supply system where they were. As Peter clearly and accurately stated, the date and maker is of little to no importance; a 1918 dated Lithgow with WW2 rework date could have last been issued to a British unit serving in India and may have had a 1912 dated Enfield-made P07 bayonet handed to the individual soldier, you will never know. As a collector, you can have whatever you want and that is what counts. 1918 dated Lithgow bayonets in nearly indentical condition can be found and the search can add to the enjoyment of the hobby.

I was in the Australian Army between 1967 and 70 and went to NZ several times between then, working up the soon-to-be-introduced L7A1. The Australian and NZ Army worked in exactly the same way as the British the same way as we did. Bayonets were bayonets and were doled out and collected in in the same casual manner. Losses and damage were just another feature of the days work. In a similar way, whether they were NZ, UK or Australian with a scattering of LB's thrown in for good measure or whatever bayonets or even rifles come to that, they were all just rifles and bayonets and as I said, while there are some that now appear to be mysteriously numbered and matched to rifles, it certainly didn't happen in my time or according to the bible that we all stuck to.

As I have said many times. The only bayonets that I can recall that weren't fully interchangeable were some No5 bayonets that had been around for ages. Some didn't fit some No5's and Sterling SMG's so instructions were issued in EMER V150 or something like that, that they were to be slightly modified to conform to a gauge limit.

A bit of useless information. When my Dad sailed for South Africa in 1941.From the UK .He was issued with a brand new and unissued Lithgow SMLE made at the end of WW1. The Australians had a 100,000 or so spare as a war reserve apparently! In his RASC work shop. He was the only one issued with an Australian made SMLE. He preferred it's lighter coloured woodwork. ( Dad is 91 and still tells tails of the Western Desert).

A little bit of trivia perhaps where Australia differs to British issue of rifles and bayonets. Rifles were issued in transport cases. Whilst this may not always be the case transport cases have 8 rifles and 8 bayonets. Anyway can the most learned people advise why the majority of Lithgow bayonets are serial numbered to their rifles when issued. This seems to be from 1913 to 1943. Some later manufactured P1907s in 1944 do not bear serial numbers with majority of collecters here in Australia believing they were never issued but sold off as surplus equipment.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

! agree with Old Smithy and Aragorm in threads 4 and 8 on this one. They're dead right. I was a unit Armourer for hundreds of years and contrary to what you might read elsewhere, rifles were NOT issued with a bayonet. I know you see those No4 blades serially numbered but there's a commercial 'reason' for that called 'added desirability and sales pitch'. The bayonets came separately as a big pile. You went into the Armoury and the Arms storeman gave you a rifle and a bayonet. I never, ever, ever saw, in my 50 years since 1963, an Arms storeman select a special year bayonet for a special year rifle. Enfield L1A1's got whatever bayonet was in the tray, as did BSA No4's and so on.

And to take that analogy back to the big Ordnance Depots who issued the bayonets and rifles to the units, I would bet that they didn't select matches either....... but I could be wrong!

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Peter you are wrong on this. Before your time.
lithgow rifles were issued with a numbered matching bayonet. then the storemen stamped the military district (STATE) number on both with a matching inventory number. This was the case until the states were disbanded. Then only the rifle number till about 43. The rifles came in a box of 8 with their bayonet. Those boxes seem to be quite rare now and command serious $$

Ah, yes, hear what you're saying Bindi but as you say, that was a tad before my time and we didn't see too many No1's and bayonets in the 60's and the comment was in relation to the different working practices. The only No1's we used to see came in from the School Cadets and I don't think that they had bayonets. The Orderly Sergeant in 8 RAR had one on his black web belt as a sort of ceremonial item but that was that and it wasn't marked. We had Australian Navy Lanchesters in our Base Workshop in Singapore that came if from an Aust Navy (ex pom) submarine (I seem to think that it was the ex HMS Aurochs as we all went for a trip on it for a day and evenings jolly up the East coast of the S-China Sea but no bayonets with them. By coincidence, I have a Sanderson one that is marked RAN across the hilt for Royal Aust Navy.

Yes cadets we had rifles, owens, brens, mortars and vickers but no bayonets to bloody dangerous those things.
I have found it easier to find 1913 lithgow rifles than their bayonets (dont have one yet) werent many made. Also some states didnt have many rifles so they are some what hard to find (5MD , 6MD & 7MD) the others are like flies.

Thanks Bindi2, I think I should be a little more direct like you next time instead of shirting around more senior members particularly as I do have 35 years knowledge of collecting British and Australian bayonets with the number of them pushing well over the 1,000 mark. Need to learn a lot more about the longarms that they were attached to though. Whilst I have 1914 and 1915 Lithgow Hooks sadly my 1913 has the quillon removed. Never did cadets and wish I had taken more notice of the weapons during my National Service particularly the time spent in the armoury but difinitely no SMLE's in there.

smith3006 don't be afraid to about senior members, just mean we have been on here longer not that we necessarily know more, or that we are more willing to post than others. I found your information interesting, I have Aussie blades with serials but only remember them with MD marks etc. and thought that like most countries serializing blades to rifles stopped with the war periods. This then of course means that there is th possibility of more than one blade with the same serial number as a lost blade would need replacing. My question then is how did they replace them if every rifle had its own blade? did they issue spares for such circumstances? if so where did they come from if the made exactly the same number of blades as rifles? I am not trying to be awkward but if you look at things like this you will see where Peter and I got our comments from. Logistically this would be a nightmare during wartime with equipment losses etc.