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I think I remember it was law enforcement or DOJ stats. Certainly the non milsurp were not Korea but Domestic, and they had the same ratio.
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Sorry boss, just a small divergence! All back on topic now.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
Marshall and Sanow's "work" was utterly and completely discredited 15 years ago. Voodoo has more of a connection to scientific inquiry. They couldn't even manage to keep the arithmetic straight. Glad they're not designing bridges or analyzing prescription drug trials.
I remember when the article came out in 1988. Sanow attached to it in 1992. Then they collaborated on a book in the mid 90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstflabn
I don't want to see this turn into some political banter. Those interested should Goggle the names and read the write ups themselves.
Whatever, a 110 gr .30 caliber roundnose FMJ, soft point or semi-jacketed hollow point (Speer #1835) at 1950 fps is a serious round for a pistol-caliber carbine. 5.56mm NATO has too much penetration potential in my suburban environment to consider firing it inside the house. For those times when a pistol isn't enough and a shotgun may not suffice either, the .30 Carbine is very attractive. Particularly in a sub-gun, its a serious chopper. The Israelis still use a 'bullpup' M1 Carbine sub-gun in some security forces. But even in a semi-auto, .30 carbine is devastating at 100 yds or less, particularly the hollow point. Now an AR15-type in .30 Carbine would be very cool to me. Such a gun was once made by Olympic but didn't sell, so they dropped it. I think a conversion would be possible using a chamber insert in a 7.62X39 barrel. You would use a standard bolt. The magazine would consist of basically a 5.56 mag as the outer shell with a carbine mag inside, shimmed correctly to feed. But I digress; a factory-made one would be preferable, of course.
I no longer have any tactical applications in mind for my one M1 Carbine which is in preservation mode, but an AR or other carbine, even a High Point in .30 Carbine would get my attention as a home defense gun.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...arbmag3a-1.jpg
I was amazed at the damage the single 110 JSP Remington round did with a heart-lung shot to the deer at about 100 yards! The heart was blown apart, and the exit hole would take all five fingers of my hand scrunched together in it, including two ribs that had chunks missing. WOW! The damage was no less than I had experienced before shooting deer with my trusty, sporterized No 4, MKI .303 British.
I had carried it as a LEO trunk weapon before that, but after I had total confidence it would work for me in my application.
If you're hesitant to use the 5.56mm for home defense due to worries about over penetration then you don't want to use the 30 carbine either. With FMJ bullets it will penetrate just as much if not more than a 5.56mm will and as long as it doesn't hit an appliance, breaker box or some such it's gonna go through at least 2 and possibly 3 walls with an expanding bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by INLAND44
True.... Now that I live in a rural neighborhood (1/2 acre lots) I use an 18" pump riot gun with 3" magnum #1 buckshot. Each shot has (24) .30 caliber pellets! I have a Turkish copy of an Ithaca Model 37 that holds 5+1, with a stock sling with 5 more. When I lived back in Illinois on 5 acres surrounded by farmland 2007 to 2011, I used my M1 Carbine, as I did when I had 20 acres in California up until 2007. In 2006 (in California), I scared off a car load of villains entering my property in the middle of the night with felonious intent with the Carbine!
How did Marshall and Sanow get drawn into this?
Uhhh, maybe because that's the link the OP posted and commented on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
They were the authors of the data on that page. While I don't take their data as gospel, I also don't go along with the haters... When I was an LEO and rangemaster, we actually saw a fair amount of the raw data in their early stages.The later work was what was questionable. Fact remains, the M1 Carbine is grossly underestimated and unfairly maligned.My dad and his brothers used it to great effect in the Pacific in WW2. They were certainly happy with it! They came back.