UK out of service date for the .303 Bren?

Isn't the reason that there are so many NOS 1907 bayonet grips available now is because someone incorrectly thought that they were for the No5 bayonet? So they were stored for a lot longer than they otherwise would have been which is useful if you need a set of replacement grips for your 1907.

The No1/No5 bayonet grip situation happened in the 80's/90's when the L2's and bayonets were being withdrawn. Replacement grips were demanded to to refurbish some 60,000 bayonets (and guns). And yes, hundreds of useless No1 grips came through the system, marked/catalogued as No5 grips..

The spares system now is in tied up in tight contract wording and caters for '.....just in time'. Alas, it doesn't seem to cater for '.....just in case' as it used to. Armourers were really their own worst enemies for keeping dozens and dozens of spares on the shelves of their Armourrers shops. Ordnance were guilty too. They used to supply spares under a 'unit of issue' system. So for smaller items, the unit of issue would be a sealed pack of 10! Such as the L1A1 trigger and sear axis sleeve. You'd probably never use 10 in 5 years!

In my opinion - and I haven't been at the sharp end for many years - I'd say that the ord system now is pretty good for current kit.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Storeage of kit is always a thorny problem. To store it in what are now commercially run Ordnance Depots costs money. You could argue that there is absolutely no need to store valuable MAN lorry spares or Land Rover spares when a Field workshop order for, say, a rebuilt rear axle is directed straight to the UK distributor who sends it out to the unit as he would an order to the MAN lorry depot in Crewe.

A lot of stuff is simply not serviced now due to costs. Why repair a fairly cheap set of fixed focus binoculars that cost £70 or a quartz wristwatch that costs £22? Just replace it and send the old ones back to the manufacturer who decides if it's even economic to repair. I often used to quote the new cost of L4 and L7 BFA's against the cost of having them rebuilt..... Do we train apprentices over 3 years to repair night vision kit? Or do we let an unskilled(?) fitter do any un-important external fixes and send the internally damaged unit back to Pilkington for a like-new exchange unit?

A difficult one that I have had to see both sides of

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Binoculars or watches really who cares?

Jet turbine blades or complete engines for aircraft built 30-40 years ago and still in front line service...or trucks...

When you are talking to the local unit RSM and WO and they mention that 50-70% of their support vehicles are broke down or canibalized for spares and don't run you wonder if they could support any real combat operations.

Shouldn't the small arms stand be 200% reserve & primary issue?

They aren't something you can supply tomorrow if needed.

I note comments regarding the French adoption of the HK 416, being for 100,000 rifles supplied over 4-5 years!

I don't think a future opponent will give us that long to arm up. Having unarmed manpower didn't work very well for the Russians during WWI/2 or the UK during Ww2...Remember all the pictures of the troops training with broomsticks??

Being an island doesn't protect the UK the way it did in 1940...nor North America.

If in 1936 the Canadian MGO councilled that he needed 500,000 stored rifles and our population is now 4 times larger today, does having 100,000 rifles make sense?

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

When you are talking to the local unit RSM and WO and they mention that 50-70% of their support vehicles are broke down or canibalized for spares and don't run you wonder if they could support any real combat operations.

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Factual truth of the state of affairs when I left the Army in 2013, I suspect little has changed for the better since then. A simple 200 km road move from Edmonton to Wainwright would look like the Desert Storm Iraqi withdrawal up Highway 80 at times, and trail party would end up larger than the main body. We shipped troops by rented civilian Coach and equipment by commercial tractor-trailer for very good reason.

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

Factual truth of the state of affairs when I left the Army in 2013, I suspect little has changed for the better since then. A simple 200 km road move from Edmonton to Wainwright would look like the Desert Storm Iraqi withdrawal up Highway 80 at times, and trail party would end up larger than the main body. We shipped troops by rented civilian Coach and equipment by commercial tractor-trailer for very good reason.

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During "real" home Operations there would be a lot of green paint used on "expropriated" civilian heavy vehicles.

Its always been the way, a mate of mine who spent a lot of his time moving between various BOAR Armoured units in the 1980's used to laugh about the state of readiness. The only saving grace would have been the time Ivan would have needed to mobilise for War, hopefully enough time for NATO to call up the reserves and get the respective Vickers/British Aerospace/RG factories to pull out their fingers and get some overtime in!