Printable View
You recall of course the majority of the officers in WW1 were still of the aristocracy. It's been stated that no commission was purchased after 1914, but I can tell you for a fact it's still going on. It's just done differently. That creates the "Club" atmosphere you describe. Thus the incompetence of many senior officers during the first great unpleasantness... They weren't actual soldiers, they were rich guys that wanted to be in charge. Self entitlement...Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
That, and that the majority of British Army officers at the beginning of both world wars had attended the same public schools (US readers: very expensive, exclusive, private boarding schools). That alone created a club or clique atmosphere with an attitude of disdain for those who weren't from the same 'class of people'. Churchill, in fact, had attended one of the elite public schools (Harrow) in his day before going to Sandhurst and the Army. He knew of which he spoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The RAF and RN was equally bad, if not worse. Oxford and Cambridge universities were much the same way back then as well. It was as it was, and change a bit during the interwar years and much more so from the early 1950s onward.
Familiarity with social history offers contextual depth to military history. Reading Chesterton's writings about pre-WWI and WWI Germany and Europe offers some insights into their social mentalities and subsequent events during the interwar period.
I just watched the Blue Max today. When Stachel (George Peppard) meets his commanding officer he starts with a little small talk and then asks, "who are your people?" Searching for the aristocratic connection because probably unheard of to be a pilot in those days from lower classes.
"...Monty was a very clever man..." Yep. BS'd his way around Allied HQ and changed what he said his plan was to suit what actually happened. Never ever did anything he said he'd do. And he wasn't Churchill's first choice to replace Auchinleck. Gott was.
"...Operation Market Garden could have been so successful..." Except for the part where the Dutch Resistance, who reported the 9th and 10th SS Panzer divisions were in Arnhem, were ignored by 21st Army Group. The entire operation was a huge waste of resources given that Patton was closing on the Saar River. Mostly politically motivated too.
"...Montgomery was a teetotaller..." Yep. Rabidly anti-smoking too.
I had all forgotten a story my 7th grade history teacher told us. She was a nurse in the 8th Army and was taking a break with a group of nurses and doctors at a field hospital. They were standing around under a palm tree smoking when Monty and several staff officers walked by. They all popped to attention then he yelled "drop those nasty ***s and get back to work!" I loved her class because she brought first hand experience to the classroom. I even built her a Lancaster bomber from a kit that she proudly hung from the ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
I was once told that during WW1 "nasty and incompetent" British officers and N.C.O.'s were sometimes deliberately shot by fellow soldiers of their own side. It was suggested that this may have occurred during the confusion and melee of going "over the top", advancing on the enemy. I have no idea if there is any truth in this or if it ever happened but one can imagine that it could easily have done so. With bullets flying everywhere and soldiers dropping like flies, who would have noticed a British soldier taking a shot at a British officer?
Wasn't it Monty that was suppose to take Caan on D-day and it took almost 6 weeks?
The main priority was to stop the Germans counter attacking on the flank which Monty was extremely worried about. This Monty was very successful in doing.
If you say so. Most of the American generals didn't think much of him.
Who's to say Monty and others didn't feel the same about American Generals?:)