Owen Bayonet

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

why the fuller doesn't go to the end of the blade

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It does though, it goes right through the end...look at it. That last part is just the edge. Here's one that doesn't for instance.

Yes, the ones like this that had been shortened were found to be weaker at the point.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I have the gravest doubts as to the practicality of a bayonet with the fuller running right through to the point being a service issue. It defeats the point - if you'll excuse the pun. Chopped down short to prove size, fit and usefulness is one thing. But for issue is total lunacy in my opinion so far as the mechanics and strength are concerned. With a fuller running through to the point, the frontal cross section is immediately (virtually/probably) halved. And not only that, it's halved longitudinally at the very point at which its strength and toughness is needed most. It's a bayonet......, at the point.......!

Nope. I say that bayonets, especially of the No1 type, that are clearly cut down/cut short other bayonets are the work of those with a spare damaged bayonet and a bit of time on their hands. Unless someone can show me in official paperwork words to the contrary

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Indian Army must have thought the shortening was worth while. They converted large numbers as No1 Mk1**.

I stand to be corrected as always of course. But where is this officially recorded? They were big on the waste not, want not philosophy I agree. My opinion is only based on nothing more than the bleedin' obvious - and simple mechanics of course

" British and Commonwealth Bayonets" Skennerton pg 347 list sealed pattern from Pakistan, one of the descendants of the Indian Army, approval date 1941 MkI* and MkI** converted by shortening MkI bt to 12.2", II** having double edge at point. 1941 was also approval date for short IP MkII bt series.
One in my personal collection is a Wilkinson MkI convtd to I** and bearing Indian FR 56 stamp.

The U.S. also converted tons of the M1905 Springfield bayonet from 16" to 10" during WWII for reissue with the '03, '03A3 and M1 Rifle.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

It does though, it goes right through the end...look at it. That last part is just the edge. Here's one that doesn't for instance.

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Has the thickness of the blade been reduced at the point by grinding an angle on each side of the blade? We don't have a picture looking directly from above, to see if this has been done, but, speaking as a metalworker and engineer, I think that it would produce the appearance of the fuller not running to the end of the blade.

Here is a link to an Indian shortened 1907 on World Bayonets Website: India - No. I Mk. I** (Pattern 1907) Bayonet

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I think

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It's a cut down 1907 blade. You're going to have to believe what you want, I won't argue. I've tried to educate you with reality. It's not happening. Good night now...

I am asking Jim, not arguing. This is what the U.S. 1905 bayonet looked like when cut down: USA - M1 Bayonet

See how the fullers run right through to the point.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

the fullers run right through to the point

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Yes, this is a thicker blade at that point. So the edge is contoured and shows that flat surface...all the way up. They didn't make any that looked like that. The 1907 and that short Owen that look like a mini 1907 are the way they were done. Look in a search engine for Owen cut down bayonets and all these different cut downs appear, all a bit different looking. Peter is adamant that it's a local mod not MOD authorized or ordered...thus the differences. I wouldn't know but it makes sense. Thus the vast differences. I've cut a couple of scrappers to make them sell on today's market too...made a couple of "Original" fighting knives too... This one looks perfect, considering the weapons shop might be less apt to be cosmetic...

Here's an example of a 1907 blade that's been shortened, at some time or other. Because the fullers have the appearance of running right the way through to the end of the shortened blade, the sides of the shortened blade clearly have not been ground off at an angle to reduce the blade thickness.

SMLE No.6 KNIFE BAYONET | Spandau Militaria Shop