1886 Lebel Tube Magazine/Lifter Issue

My thoughts too. The sized neck measures .321-.322. Not sure what's going on and I am considering taking the decapper pin down a few thousands to give me more neck tension.

Randy

These side by side says much:


Attachment 139460Attachment 139461

Is that a crack?

There ya go. That crack would effectively lower the stop tip just enough to let a round by while working the action robustly enough to operate the lifter.

Here is the bad boy. Not totally sure as my French is nonexistent:

Attachment 139463

There are some pretty good vids on U-tube showing the operation of the rifle, and the feeding cycle. As long as it's all apart, looks like it would be worth your while to check the cam on the bottom of the lifter that pivots the stop up. Wear here could limit upward travel of the stop. The leaf spring pushing the stop up is another pertinent piece of the operation. Probably fine, but...

Will do!

Thanks,
Randy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Lebels are weird in that they are designed for pointed bullets. They base has a groove in it that holds the point off the primer and the shape of the cartridge also facilitates this.

Growing up and owning several Winchester lever actions, these bullets always make me nervous but as the Lebel has been around forever and never changed, it must work.

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They weren't designed for pointed bullets, rather adapted to them. Originally they used round nose bullets (actually more flat nosed), and in 1898 they switched to pointed. Only reason they could was because of that extreme taper in the case, more of a happy accident than anything else. Other than the groove in the case and the taper they also had a convex primer cover which was crimped over the primer as well. Really a cool design and history to it, but unfortunately for the French it resulted in them having the by far most obsolete service rifle out of any nation in the war.

Just a lot of poor decisions which carried through for the next 60 years. They rushed the development of the rifle to get it into the field first, which meant using a obsolesent design for the time (the same year the Mannlicher 86 system came out, within two years the Gewehr 88, within 3 years the 1889 Mauser). They rushed development of the cartridge to meet the same timeline, which resulted in the weird double taper of the 8mm Lebel and the huge rim on the cartridge. This cartridge would hold back French arms development for almost 40 years making machine gun designs more difficult, the fact it was able to be adopted to a pointed cartridge in the Lebel meant it didn't force the French to adopt a more modern design, and it made more modern designed magazine rifles more difficult (such as the 3/5 shot berthiers, and the later semi-autos).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

because of that extreme taper in the case, more of a happy accident than anything else. Other than the groove in the case and the taper they also had a convex primer cover which was crimped over the primer as well.

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Talk about an over complex cartridge to have to make.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Talk about an over complex cartridge to have to make.

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It really was. Set them back for a long time in comparison to the more efficient cartridges developed just after. Not to mention wasted time manufacturing and wasted resources with millions of rounds made with a lot more brass than would be needed for a similar capacity cartridge.

That being said it is my favourite cartridge to reload, it is very tactile and easy to handle.