Well, I do WWII reenacting, so having a copy of a No 32 scope is definately worth what Numrich was asking for it to me, it just happened that their offering coincided with my wife's anual attempt to singlehandedly jumpstart the US ecconomy!
Printable View
Well, I do WWII reenacting, so having a copy of a No 32 scope is definately worth what Numrich was asking for it to me, it just happened that their offering coincided with my wife's anual attempt to singlehandedly jumpstart the US ecconomy!
Longshaor - As a re-enactor, do you need a fully working scope ? It's not as if you're going to shoot your fellow re-enactors in tacticals.... is it ? :) This is the one I ended up putting together - a 53 scope with fake block and turrets - total cost $20 for the scope and $40 for the machining (sadly I no longer have access to the old chap that did such a superb job or I'd be looking at marketing some conversion kits :) ). The whoole thing's a bit of a conceit perhaps but gets handled by a lot of the public at shows throughout a year in a way that you wouldn't want a working 32 scope to be played with !! :)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...proscope-1.jpg
Paul
Oh yes, for the record - the scope cover is one of the old 'Sefton Clothing' ones off e-bay and as you can see has stretched somewhat during the years - it's not a Jon Moore on which are infinitely better - thought I'd put this one in the frame to show how some of the scope covers stretch without trying ! It is however, a Jon Moore strap and has served well for some years now.
Brian, I'm not following you here. If the scopes are being sold here in the States and most of us who've commented on the latest sitrep are also Stateside, how does US export law enter into it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Was thinking the same thing. I know I saw an earlier post from last year saying these were seen in Europe at that time. Is it a safe bet its the same people making the replica OU and PEM scopes for the Mosins?Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshaor
That's a pretty damn interesting project Colonel! Is the item shown the converted No53? It's pretty good if it is. Did your fitter man machine the tube down so that it'd fit into the No32 bracket cradles (the No42 and 53 are .018" oversize) and did he re-engrave the correct markings onto it.
It looks to me that those fitting the weavers scopes to No4T's have got precious little eye relief and thgose big brass eye cell retaining rings certainly know how to split your eye brows open........... but only once!
Peter - the tube is untouched, as is the bracket (I'm assuming a SARCO as it was sold to me by a US friend) - the block is held in place by the turrets (they're in reality just big grub screws) by light pressure (the sleeve around the turret block is a superbly tight fit).
The markings are still 53 scope; the plates under the turrets are fakes - a groove machined in and then deliberately left square - with allen key screws 'holding' them down. The rifle they attach to is also mercifully free of stamps and markings as the whole project was to produce something the public could handle and look through without deceiving them or other collectors. I proudly clain that my rifle is a *unique* No. 4(E) - the E standing for ersatz
Paul
Needs must and all that............. What a brilliant effort!
Anyone got an updated link to the company doing the repro scopes. The one to GPC no longer works.
Gary
Hey all, the add for the scope is back up on Numrich's website and this is what it says:
Hopefully this means they've had enough inquiries that they're trying to source more of them.Quote:
This item is currently sold out.
We frequently purchase new & used parts from many sources.
Make note of the item number and try back in 30-60 days.
Cheers!
Anyone out there in Forumland interested in a paper 'wot I rit' a couple of years ago for someone, detailing the requirements for converting No42 and/or No53 telescopes to No32 Mk3 spec. Mk3 is FAR easier and simpler than the Mk1 or 2..............
Longshaor and Tower06, U.S. export law doesn't enter into it at all if you're stateside unless you sell the scope to someone overseas and want to ship it to them. Importation to the USA from overseas is no problem except that many nations now require an export license in order to ship them which requires an import license from here to get approved! It's an endless boondoggle. Just think of all the crime we're stopping!
Thanks, Brian! I thought I was missing something.
Cheers!
I had an interesting conversation today with a Numrich customer service rep. regarding my defective no. 32 scope. She gave me two options, send it back and get a refund or they could replace it. When i asked about the replacement option she told me they have more scopes on way but don't know when they will arrive. Longshaor, looks like you or me one was shot a line.
On the bright side however, we had a Firearms Control debate in the House of Commons just before Christmas and MP after MP stood up and said that you can make as many laws as you like but they will only affect the law abiding. Progress? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
That's so correct Beery. Criminals, by definition simply don't comply with the law. Oh, don't get me going............
Yes Peter and Beery: Harder laws don't stop gun crime, as proved by the non-effect of the handgun ban. Not that they still don't like a stab now and then in the face of all evidence to the contrary: who could forget the appalling scheme to ban all deactivated guns, as put forward in the wake of the shooting of a young lad (with undoubtedly an illegal weapon) by a minister desperate to show willing to tackle the 'problem'. At least the wind doesn't seem to be blowing in too disastrous a direction in terms of new legislation at present!
The only murder that ever hit close to me was a friend of my little sister who was beaten to death with a baseball bat. If the illuminated intellectual elite are sooo concerned with protecting us knuckle-dragging Neanderthals from our own extinction, how about banning baseball bats? Yeah I know it's inherantly un-American, but do you really think the gun-ban nuts care about something as trivial as a national past time when the survival of us lesser mortals hangs in the balance and we're just too dumb to see it? Please excuse the cynicism dripping off and puddling under your monitors...
Hey, Vintage Hunter, HOOYAH!!! I'm waiting patiently for the next shipment. :D
Yes it was illegal. In fact a Prohibited Weapon (Section 5) since the Firearms Amendment Act 1997.) It was a fully functioning Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector 2nd Model, in .455. (There were good pictures of it and ammunition on TV, when it was recovered from its hiding place.)Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinzEugen
Yes please, PeterQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I'm certainly interested - not sure I could do it but ..... it would be nice to see what was involved and if I could persude someone to have a go for me.
Paul
I recognise that scope Paul :PQuote:
Originally Posted by colonel blimp
Paul.
'bout time you showed up on here :)
As to the scope, tha' should do - and know the old chap that did the work - that well known Bailey's fiend - your father :)
Was the scope tool one of his or yours ? Either way wonderful work :)
Happy New year :)
Paul
"These scopes are out of stock, but on order. We do anticipate having them in stock again, but it will not be anytime soon. Check again in 90 days."
I'm just hoping the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train heading in my direction!
Any reviews on these scopes yet?
I picked up a repro scope a few months ago on Delcampe (french ebay thingy) for my british re-enacting I have no idea who the makers is, but its labeled up as a MK3 when its clearly an mk 1 or mk2. The optics seem to be very ok but as its more a display piece (firing blanks) i could say wether it works for shooting. The downside to it (apart from the wrong MK ofc) is that when i had the work done to fit it to a No.4, it turned out the part of the bracket (the scope came with the pads and bracket as a package) that holds the scope straight was way off and i had to have some work done to it, its fine now luckly.
I have added some pics if anyone could tell me more about this scope :)
I would say that it is definately a repop. Marked Mk3, Mk2 drums and is that a Mk1 sliding eye splitting eye shade? You could also ask the cracking 20 year old blonde in the window if she'll get properly dressed next time. If she'd put her bra on, I'd be able to tell whether the grat post is too narrow or the crosswire is too thick!
I see several things that are different from the ones being sold here in the U.S.. The ones here don't have an eye piece sun shade and the aiming post extends too far above the cross wire. Looks like whoever made this one at least got the reticle close to right.
See that lovely pic of the reticle? Why oh why would the folks that made the Numrich lookalike not copy that exactly as it is? Near enough isn't good enough in the case of these scopes, and it must be costing them plenty in lost sales.
Appearantly Numrich is having a hard time selling the second batch for whatever reasons. I noticed they have them on ebay now, for about $75 more than on their web page. Normally the stuff Numrich sells on ebay is junk they can't dispose of any other way, or at least thats how I see it.
If it's just the graticle pattern that is the problem and they're cheap (or are they.....?) then surely the best thing would be to get one and change the grat for something close to original. That's easy. Or have I missed something?
Any more recent updates on the reproduction Sarco and the Gunparts Corp. No32 scopes ?
Bought one secondhand for my Savage. Works pretty well: 1942 Savage Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 Scopeless T - YouTube
Very nice rifle and great video .
Very good information . Any more updates from users of these Gun Parts scopes ?
I like the Gun Parts Corp. scope better than I do the RSM that I have. The GPC scope looks identical and has the same reticle as an original MKI or MKII scope. The RSM reticle is way too "fat" and the main body machining leaves much to be desired.
My Mk II scope came in today from Gun Parts Corp. . When I compare it to my l42A1 and No4 Mk1 sniper rifles It looks very good indeed . Very clear view and the cross wire and post is not heavy . the steel tube is nicely made and is blued not raw steel painted . the front sun shield has the correct small flat head screw holding it to the main tube .There is the same screw positioned on the rear locking the ring the holds the lens into the large bell of the scope . The serial number is 1944 No. 17565. I will install it on my scope less l42A1 that I picked up from Navy Arms in 1990's .
RSM is making the MK3 version ...
Also the rsm mk2 is a real 1 moa click...All other repros are 2moa (like the mk1)
RSM is asking $500.00 for the MkIII and $100.00 shipping . The Gun Parts Corp. MkII is currently selling for $261.00 with free shipping and looks very nice and works .Quote:
Originally Posted by fastback
I too just received a MkII from Gun Parts Corp, and it looks like a decent quality reproduction. I do however believe that I have an issue with mine (unless I am completely missing something here). Once mounted into a reproduction No 4T mount on my No 4 T rifle the reticle is canted counter clockwise by about 5 to 7 degrees, which is very noticeable. I have been reading all of the mounting and adjusting instructions and am to this point under the assumption that there is no adjustment for this since the scope has the small peg screw that locates into the slot on the mount. Im quickly thinking I may have gotten a defective one. Anyone else seen anything similar on these?
Your mount has a recessed area at the bottom of the front ring this is for the scope's dowel locating pin . this will have to be enlarged from the center line of the recess right and left this will allow you to cant the scope to center your scope cross hair and post . Also be aware of the fit of the scope in the front ring ,most of the after market scope mounts including the ones made by RSM are way out of specification and when the rings are fitted they will bind in the scopes area to receive the rings .If it dose you have to shave the face and the rear of the rings to insure there is no binding .I had a original No 32 MkI scope the would not a line the post and cross wire unless the after market mount was reworked as stated above . Never remove metal from the scope . Remove metal from the mount it is the lest expansive item and if you make mistake it is ease to replace.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyGhost
Thanks for the information here. So did you have a similar issue with the cant of your scope? I can hold the scope so that the turrets look level and clearly see the reticle is not rotated to align with them. I have no idea who made the repro mount I have as it came with my No 4 T rifle, but can you tell me what is considered the best repro one to use?Quote:
Originally Posted by tr63
Yes ,I had to make the changes to work with the after market mount . When I placed the Gun Parts Corp. scope on one of my original Enfield snipers the scope lined up with no issues the scope cross hair and the post lined up with no cant and the there was no binding with the rings .The mount I have is from SARCO purchased 10 years ago . I have a second one that came from Accumounts it is some what a better in fit . The best ones came from ENGLAND ,but the maker ,I do not think is making them currently . I did not mention that rear ring must not ride up onto the scopes rear bell , be sure there is space between the rear ring and the front edge of the bell where the bell meets the tube .Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyGhost
Roger Payne is on his last batch of repro mounts that everyone acknowledges are the best on the market. He is down to the last 40 and will not be making anymore after this final batch.
Thank you. This is very helpful information. I have no idea who the maker of my current mount is but everything seemed to fit like a glove when I initially installed the scope, and that was part of the reason I was so thrown off by the cant being so far off.Quote:
Originally Posted by tr63
Can you point me in the right direction to purchase one of his mounts by chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel
Just answered your pm!;)
I think I'm going to send this scope back to Numrich and either try for an exchange to see if I can get a straighter one or maybe just return it all together.
What is your serial number on the scope ? See if you can get Roger's , after market scope mount and see if it will mount a RSM scope with out a cant to the post . If you go for the RSM try their Mk 32 III and let us know it works out .
One thing I would like to add...
DO NOT force a repro scope into the mount with the cap screws.
Many of the repro mounts have a aligning pin slot that is too small for the boss on the scope itself.
You can force the scope into place with the screws as they transmit a lot of force HOWEVER you run a great risk of breaking the turret assembly loose from the tube.
I have repaired a good number of these scopes as they will no longer hold zero or a range and windage setting.
Some of the repro scopes,( they are several models out there) are a proper BI**CH to take apart to repair and my tools have been squeaking more than once.
You can check your scope by grabbing the turret body and see if it moves ever so slightly. If it does it needs fixing to have any degree of accuracy.
I'm waiting to get one of the new mark 3 scopes that a chap whats me to look at and will report on those shortly.
cheers,
Warren
I have an update. I recently acquired one of Roger Payne's scope mounts and I was also able to acquire a real No. 32 Mk II scope for comparison. As I suspected it would be, the Numrich scope in Roger's mount was still canted the same as it was in the reproduction mount. Also, the real No. 32 scope appeared to be correctly aligned with no noticeable cant in the reproduction mount. I can only conclude that the Numrich scope is defective and it will definitely be going back. As a side note, the No. 32 scope was a very tight fit (probably too tight) in the reproduction mount. Its a perfect fit in Roger's mount obviously.
Hello all, I'm new here, I also would like to get my hands on one of Roger Payne scope mounts for the No4 mk1, from reading on scope mounts his is one of the best out there.
..................:super:..................
Thank you Roger for you labors over all the years.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../0C9FIyw-1.jpg
....MJ....
Thanks MJ1. Much appreciated. This thread would seem an opportune place to mention that I will not be getting any further batches done when the present lot have all sold. I've been doing them for thirty years now & I'm more than happy for someone else to take over the reins if they wish to! At present I have about twenty left from the batch of 100, so they're still available, but if sales continue as per usual they won't be for too much longer.....
ATB.
I will send you a "PM" Roger
I just wanted to make a comment and a warning here regarding the repro scopes being tight in the mounts.
DO NOT USE THE CAP SCREWS TO FORCE THE SCOPE INTO THE MOUNT. Tapered screws transmit tremendous force on the scope seating it into the mount cradles and will actually break the turret block loose from the tube.
I have repaired several and it is not a nice job. To take the repro scopes apart normally takes special tools which l have made, but still not a nice job and no parts other than the small lot l have from scrapped scopes.
Be careful mounting the repro scope in the repro mounts and if you have to remove the aligning stud on the scope.
If you need more info or help, feel free to PM me if you need help and l will do what l can for you.
OK I hope no-one minds but I thought I would do a teardown on the Red Star Mountain No32 Mk3 reproduction scope.
A brief explanation: Six months ago I bought one for my No4 Mk1 to use on the range in competition. I got the full package that includes the repro mounts and the drill and tap.
I have a 1942 Savage No4 that was picked up by a friend in North Queensland in the 1970s while he and his girlfriend were sailing 'across the top' of Australia.
Their trip required regular forays into the rivers to collect fresh water.
Now for those of you who don't know, Australia's biggest and bitiest predator lives in the rivers of the Top End.
The Salt Water Croc is an animal to be respected and only observed from a long distance or behind a substantial fence.
There's nothing they like more than the soft flesh of an unwary tourist.
So, said friend felt the need for some insurance; not being a shooter he bought the rifle that all the croc hunters at the time swore by. The venerable 303. $40au.
He and GF and another couple sailed away feeling safer by .303 of an inch.
They stopped at a deserted island, anchored in the bay and he set off to test his new purchase with some of the 174 FMJ 1942 CDC rounds that came with the rifle.
And lo! There was a fridge washed up on the beach. He duly took aim and squeezed of 1 round, just one!
Big bang! The recoil came as a very unpleasant surprise.
The rifle, uncleaned was wrapped up in a blanket where it remained.
One day 50 years later as we inspected his new shed, he asked if I would come and shoot the possum that was constantly getting into his shed and running riot.
I said "NO, I don't shoot possums".
And besides, "haven't you got a rifle?"
He said "yes but it's a 303"
2 cartons of beer later it was mine, ALL MINE Bwa Ha Ha Ha!
Where was I?
Oh yes, it was in very good nick, so I cleaned it and found that it had centre bedding, an Australian heavy barrel from Lithgow, and Singer sights.
I won’t go into the mounting except to say I followed the instructions of Peter Laidlaw to the letter.
Attachment 134367
It now has a cheek rest mounted. (I got it off FleaBay from a bloke in England). Very nice!
The scope would not hold zero. So, I complained and much to my surprise they sent me another scope.
This looked the same, was marked the same, but was NOT the same! It had less magnification and a finer stadia. Also, the deflection movement described an arc. What to do?
I decided to take it to work with me (on an oil rig over Christmas) and pull it down and find the issues and see if my original scope is fixable.
I have done that and thought that you guys might like to see what I found.
So to pick up on the story:
The clarity is fine on both scopes, and they aren’t complex so I thought I would have a bash at fettling the freebie one.
On both of my RSM scopes the screws were barely tight. Sort of understandable as the body is made of brass, but annoying too.
(Be careful if tightening screws as the body is brass threads may strip easily Don’t use high strength Loctite anywhere).
The entire drum assembly does not have to be dismantled, I have taken one apart; only to show you what is in there.
You can see the little grub screw in the turret that locks the drum to the adjustment mechanism that winds the internal block back and forth.
Attachment 134391
Remove the grub screw and unscrew the serrated knob.
between this on top of the graduated drum are 3 wave washers, don’t lose them.
Unscrew the 4 screws that hold the drum block to the scope body.
It is under slight spring pressure from the detent pointer that is in the strange looking angled block on the side of the drum body.
Attachment 134392
If you are going to remove the stadia block, be very very careful when handling it. The stadia are extremely fine and will break if touched. Also, ANY dust on the stadia, no matter how fine will show up like dog’s bollocks when you next look through the scope.
I put Sellotape over both exposed sides of the block to protect and pick up stray particles.
I also cover the exposed scope block with tape to prevent ingress of detritus. It’s sticky surface catches anything drifting around inside too.
Attachment 134393
Here’s a pic of all the parts found inside the RSM No32 Mk3.
Attachment 134394
The top row is the elevation drum fully disassembled.
The second row is the deflection/windage drum disassembled as far as l need to repair or fettle this scope.
1. Take a good look at the detent wheels below.
Below is the elevation wheel with it’s graduated spacing.
Attachment 134395
The windage Disk with even spacing.
Attachment 134396
A close look reveals why the detent clicks of these scopes is so bad.
They are nasty, and rougher than they look. I could use them in a Dremel to grind stuff.
Badly filed by hand and case hardened.
I have, as a stop-gap measure used 1000 grit wet and dry to smooth them a bit. This has improved the awful grinding clicks.
So there’s my major job, making new wheels from O1 steel.
I'll probably cut the grooves with my Lindsey engraving tool and use a round cut profile to keep the clicks as positive and smooth as possible.
That way I only need to cut the small portion of the wheel that engages the detent pointer.
- I'll do this in Feb as I'm here at sea till mid Jan -
2. The misalignment of the blocks that push the stadia block.
Attachment 134401
Both blocks are canted.
The holes were not drilled straight and square.
The blocks themselves are pretty rough and ready too.
I think I will mill them new from brass.
3. The stadia block sits between the scope tubes. But he surfaces it runs up against are pretty rough, so maybe some very judicious polishing might be needed to allow it to move without sticking
Before I reassemble the scope for the last time, all the bearing surfaces will be carefully polished and dust and debris blown out.
I may even use some soft rubber gasket sealer to seal the drums and the ocular units to make it shower proof. Nothing drastic though as it is soft brass and won’t take to being ‘loctited’.
It will be possible to machine O-ring slots in the brass adjustment assemblies too and put a fine O-ring under them before assembly. That's not very clear but when I do it I'll post some pics.
The only exception to the use of Loctite are the little finger/bullet point knobs on the graduated dial drums that drop off and get lost. Loctite them.
Attachment 134400
I've focused the reticle using the little toothed aluminium block under the top plate.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29604
The scopes from RSM are a decent starting point for those of us who either cannot afford or who cannot find a genuine No32 scope.
Just be aware of the inconsistencies in their build quality.
Even between scopes from the same company.
Even my wife could immediately tell the difference between the 2 RSM No32 Mk3 scopes.
Some things they have done are half decent, (clarity of the optics and the stadia) and others are just plain abominable (detent disks and general fit).
By the end I hope to have 2 decent functioning scopes that will withstand the recoil and hold zero.
Then I'll put one up for sale.
Attachment 134536
Here's a rudimentary diagram of how the scope adjustment functions.
(The stadia are upside down inside the scope because the image is optically corrected)
If the focus is out slightly and loosening the objective end improves it, don't be tempted to alter the focus at this end.
It will have the effect of introducing parallax errors into the scope.
Briefly it means that if moving the objective lens assembly forward a poofteenth makes image clear, it will change the parallax.
That means, looking through the scope at a target, the act of moving your head left or right up or down, will have the effect of shifting the crosshair on the target.
Not a good thing if you want a consistent point of impact.
So focus is done from the other end. Under the little curved plate at the ocular end is a serrated block that holds the erector assembly in place.
The procedure to change this has been covered elsewhere.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29604
I just want to let people know that moving the objective even a tiny amount will cause changes in parallax.
Conversely, it could be that to fix a parallax issue, altering the objective end will work, but remember the Golden Rule: "if it ain't broken don't fiddle with it".
Here's a shot from my Med Centre window to the well heads 2km away.
Not as clear as seeing it first-hand but you get the idea.
The Stadia are much finer than my original RSM scope but the clarity is the same.
I couldn't get the camera to focus as finely as I wanted. At this distance it is possible to see workers moving around on the helideck and seagulls flying around the platform.
For a Chinese made scope I'm impressed with it's optics if nothing else.
Thankyou for the effort. Your work is very informative.
What a %^$@#* mess. :move eek:
And not much better!
Out of curiosity, I did a search for reproduction Enfield scopes and found three:
1. The Numrich, the original topic of the thread: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1249080
2. RSM, in both MkII and MkIII variants: https://www.redstarmountain.com/shop...product_id=144
3. Waffenmeister, a MkI repro: https://www.waffenmeisters.com/enfie...2-for-sale-buy
How do these compare?
I'm surprised you couldn't find this info here, they've all been discussed in the forum at length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuraleanus
Attachment 134645I can't access Gunparts due to a server fault but the Waffenmeister scope is a No32 Mk1 and shows signs of being made withmore attention to detail than the RSM unit.
Note the margins of the block and the screws.
They are miles ahead of the RSM units I have, that were not even remotely well fitted.
Plus they state that the optics are from Japan.
I would guess (and this is just a guess) that these are better made.