Well, as a DZ controller, I can tell you that everything in a parachute drop is weight and is considered...needed or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
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Well, as a DZ controller, I can tell you that everything in a parachute drop is weight and is considered...needed or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Is there a No4 rifle with a spike bayonet attached, in either picture in Post 93, because I'm struggling to see one?
Jim,
Absolutely correct.....its all relative to the chute (s) to be used as well!
Almost the center foredge of the table...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
§sending bayonets to the European resistance fighters........ They must have thought someone was playing a joke or taking the pee out of them. Nope. Not even the most dim witted civil servant or ordnance stores packer/dispatcher would be that stupid. They packed what was on the freight manifest Just my view of course
Thanks Jim, I can't see it on my Lap top but I take your word that it's there.
I seem to recall hearing or seeing somewhere that bayonets were dropped with the SMLE or P14 rifles (I can't remember which) to the Norwegian Resistance during WW2 who duly ditched the bayonets.
Nice : Maquisards de Levens posant à Nice devant l'hôtel Scribe le matin du 29 août 1944 ( doc Paniccaci)
Attachment 80007
Excellent pic. Looks like bags of battlefield pickups, 1944 would be right for that. Stolen boots and full equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Great picture, mostly K98's and MP40's with the odd Sten, No4 with spike and the chap on the left looks like he's holding a Hi-Power.
Could the fellow holding the MG34 link look any more French!
Immediately after any major "contact" after D-Day, the countryside would have been littered with all sorts of "stuff". Not all of it would have been recovered by Allied "post-action battlefield tidiness" units.
By the time the Allies rolled into Paris, the "bag" would have been very mixed, depending on where in the resistance "hierarchy" one stood.
Between stuff stashed in barns during the German invasion, air-drops, battlefield pickups and outright theft from the Germans, they would have had a VERY motley collection, as per the photo.
As long as it did the job for training or operations, I guess it was "accepted".
American troops arrived in Nice on the 28th, but I doubt they brought any No.4 rifles with them.
Someone picked one up in Normandy in the previous month and brought it down to Nice?
Doubtful.
Nobody's saying that the resistance didn't have bayonets - the very LAST means of mechanical defiance don't forget before you try to hook xxxxxxxxxx xxxx out - but there are a thousand more important things that they need such as batteries (always in short supply) easily decipherable/easily read explosive instructions* Partisans are are covert bringers of fear. Something that, generally speaking, bayonets don't achieve and furthermore, they only kill or maim ONE at a time while a grenade or time bomb will get 10.
* initially they had loads of explosives, fuzes and detonators but no decent easily read literature on what to do with it. Many accidents because of this too.
My Grandfather was in the Home Guard during the war and I suspect that he was also a member of the Auxiliary Unit which would have been the British resistance had the Germans invaded the U.K.. It is known that the Auxiliary Units had at their disposal clubs sometimes wooden, often with metal studs protruding similar to what was used during WW1. Often these clubs were home made from wood and interestingly I still have the one which my Grandfather made during the war. It has been made from a wooden spade shaft and one end has been cross drilled for studding in several places. Indentations can still be seen in the wood where metal studding has been fitted and retained with nuts each side but my Grandfather must have removed this studding at the end of the war, leaving just the holes in the wood. My father did ask him the reason for the holes in the club and got the silly reply that they were cooling holes to stop the club from overheating when he swung it.
I could post pictures if anyone is interested although it has been stained a darker colour by my father because he thought it looked better for display purposes.
Well, you don't know that. Nor anything else about it. Or that the label on the picture is even remotely correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Is anyone able to identify the rifle which the man 4th from left is holding, with bayonet attached, please? (Post 107)Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
I agree Peter, but I thought the debate was whether the Maquis/FFI might have been supplied with spike bayonets for some or all of the No4 rifles that were air-dropped to them in 1943/44?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
That's right Jim, all we know is what we can see in the photo and what is claimed on that website. Here's a bit more info on the photo: Musée de la résistance en ligneQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
So how do you think that Maquisard in Nice on the morning of August 29th 1944 came to be holding a No.4 with a spike bayonet fitted?
My bet would be it came in an airdrop container along with the rifle. ;)
Some good info on the containers etc. here: Google Translate
Flying10uk,
Looks to me like a Karabiner 98 Kurz.
Rob, I'm inclined to agree re the No4 - I'm sure that quantities would have been dropped to various resistance units all over France for the couple of years running up to D-Day. I know stens & explosives would be the ideal, but I'm sure rifles were para dropped as well. I'm going over to France tonight for a week so I'll see if I can turn up any more information, at least for the Pas-de-Calais/Picardy region. My wife & sons will be at home meantime but don't expect any sense from them on the subject of Enfields!
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Well, you don't know that. Nor anything else about it. Or that the label on the picture is even remotely correct.
Well, the Hotel le Scribe still stands in Nice and its entrance matches the Hotel Scribe in the picture.
That wasn't what I was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobD
This was...Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
The picture in Post 107 is the only image which I'm aware of, of the French Resistance actually holding a No4 rifle with a spike bayonet actually attached. I would be very interested to see any others which anyone is aware of, please.
Well, Jim you DID say:
Or that the label on the picture is even remotely correct.
I have shown the label is indeed correct, at least for 3 of the 4 dimensions.
Sure thing. Except for where the weapons came from. But you can stay here and argue about nothing, because that's what the picture prove, nothing. By now...Quote:
Originally Posted by RobD
A reminder for everyone .. ;)
What is good forum etiquette and how do I deal with other members who make me angry?
Thanks .. :cheers:
Regards,
Doug