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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CINDERS
OWell a bus load of asian ethnic people turned up in a bus yes a bloody bus and hoovered the shop clean and departed
I'll be controversial and I'll happily accept the flak.
The one thing this situation is teaching us is that "globalisation" is an abject failure. And it's punitive to countries, communities and cultures.
Let's be clear. Humans are prejudiced creatures. We're tribal. Is that good, or bad? Well, that's a little esoteric.
Italy is Italy because of Italians and their culture.
Austria is different to Germany, though they speak the same language, because Austrians are Austrians, not Germans. They have Austrian culture, preferences and desires. And good on them.
Immigration has and will be the norm for people. Australia benefitted from the mass immigration of Europeans post WWII to rebuild our shattered economy and to home the homeless from the conflict which we were rightly part of. There was an early 'fitting in' period for the newcomers. They didn't understand us, and we didn't care to understand them. But bit by bit, they educated us, as we did them. They bought such rich and enviable culture to boost the pretty staid and British Australian culture of the late 40's and 50's. Nowadays, the Croats, the Greeks, Italians, Brits, Germans, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Estonians, Maltese (and the list goes on and on) are all "real Aussies." Why? Because they chose to integrate. They assimilated our expectations, rebelled at times, and conceded that maybe we could work and live together quite easily, when we decided to be "us."
Fast forward to the past 10-15 years and the unchecked immigration we have taken from certain cultures that are patently at odds with our beliefs, behaviours and traditions and we have multi-culturalism. This is a caustic situation where we have pockets of immigrants choosing to establish and run their culture with primacy over the national and regional culture. This is the divisiveness of 'multi-culturalism.' Its a foolish notion that effectively says that The Vatican City must accept a block of Pagans and Devil Worshippers in the bounds of the City, because that's the multi-cultural way. Another silly analogy would be to have a square kilometer of Extreme Shia Muslims ensconced in the middle of Jerusalem. It doesn't quite work, does it?
So what we have in Oz nowadays, is many pockets of Chinese mainlanders, all ex-CCP controlled, or card-carrying members of the Party, in amongst our liberal-democratic society which is still based on a moderate form of capitalism. We're seeing oil-on-water here...
Cinder's comments are real. They're not prejudicial, they're factual. They are, in fact, evidence of the problem of this complete debacle that fuels this 'panic buying.'
What they demonstrate is that humans, as tribal beings, do have a preferred 'behaviour of the tribe.' Sadly, we have let other tribes take precedence over our one big tribe. And we're paying the price for it.
Let's hope that after this stupidity dies down, we all have a good look at how we handled the situation and take some very positive steps to prevent such a self-centred outbreak happening again in the next century, at least. It doesn't take vigilante mobs, or violence. It takes self-discipline and respect. Respect for your neighbour as much as yourself.
Go in peace, all. Be safe and be good to one another.
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No flak from this side of the world. Appreciation and full backing of these thoughts.
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There was some suggestion in the media that the virus may have started due to some of the things that are eaten in China.
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Heard it. Don’t know what to think about it...
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A good source (my oldest daughter) has informed me that we may be facing a shelter in place order tomorrow. Only way you will be able to get anything is by delivery. Now she didn't say if this was going to be for our county, our state or the entire nation. Nor can we be certain that it's going to happen. Trump did seem to imply it could happen in his speech yesterday. Our governor also implied it could be the next step. He however has backed down just a bit on the state shutdown. He pushed enforcement back to Monday morning and is allowing waivers.
In any case, we made a last run to Walmart for whatever odds and ends we didn't have before and extended our soda stash further. Picked up a few canned goods that looked like they might make a nice change of pace.
One things for sure, I won't be lacking for reading materials. My wife on the other hand is out of luck unless she suddenly develops an interest in military history.
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793 dead today. Mostly elderly people, but that does not change the tragedy of such a number.
I feel for all these people as I never felt for anybody else.
Especially Bergamo. Bergamo is a strange city. Wonderful, one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Small, at the feet of the Alps, with a fairly large province climbing up the mountains.
Almost everybody, until the end of military conscription, was an Alpino there.
Tough, silent and generous people, they have an extremely strong religious feeling. Wherever you go around the world and find missionaries or people working for non-political NGOs, if there are Italians, there will be an over-average percentage of them.
I'm from Milan, a few kilometres from Bergamo, and know them very well.
We always argue, as it is usual in our country, where we have the so called "bell tower feeling", which makes you consider everyone far from your small circle an outsider. But we respect them, and so do they with people from Milan.
Today I want to tell the whole world that we, here, all feel for them.
SIAMO TUTTI BERGAMASCHI, FRATELLI!!!
Thanks for sharing this message and for any support you can give this people.
They are great mountain people. They deserve every inch of solidarity we can give them.
BROTHERS!
---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
My wife on the other hand is out of luck unless she suddenly develops an interest in military history.
Poor gal...:lol::lol::lol:
I'm sure my wife feels for her...
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Hard to imagine that many dead in one day. Hopefully you will start reversing this soon.
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They waited until close to midnight before telling us that all non essential businesses will be closed down.
Now let’s see what that means.
I’m starting to think that our government doesn’t really know what to do and are taking the easy way.
Stop everything. Kill the Country.
We’ll see...
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Here is what one of our NHS nurses thought of her fellow of citizens who have been "panic buying" and "stripping shelves" in the UK.
I can understand where she is coming from; it took me 3 days just to buy a loaf of bread, the week just gone.
Coronavirus: NHS nurse in tears after being unable to buy fruit and veg - YouTube
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This is something that concerns me here in the US. People in the cities do not shop for food on a weekly or monthly basis, they shop for food daily. They have a fridge but it has a few drinks in it and that's about it. Small amounts of food in the cabinets and closets. The stores only have enough food for one day, shippers have to bring food in daily. I've heard that at best, the average city person has 3 days of food before they all run out if new shipments stop.
Growing up in the country, we have a completely different outlook on things. We have two freezers and both are pretty full. They were well stocked before this all happened. What we bought at the stores during this crisis were canned goods just in case the electricity goes out which doesn't seem very likely but it is possible. We buy food when it's on sale and put it in the freezer. Used to have deer meat in there but it's been a few years and any that's left likely isn't any good.
Personally, I feel bad for people that are having trouble finding food but at the same time have a little trouble relating. We grew up in a culture of the scout motto, "Be Prepared" city folk don't seem to have ever heard that or understood what it meant.
Now this isn't supposed to be the end of food shipments, they will continue but at the same time, they may restrict everyone to their homes. Delivery only and if you live in the country, now you're the one with the problem as you're too far away for delivery. And again, if deliveries are overloaded, you may be going hungry for a day or two before yours get sent.
I hope people at a minimum are paying attention to this and learning. Hopefully we will get through this and be better prepared for the future, especially if there is a really deadly virus that hits. The zombie appocalypse kind.
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The more the situation develops here, the less people learn in other places.
I don’t really get that...
The way to go is to keep quiet and restrain ourselves, in order not to scare anybody and keep the situation under control.
Panic would get people killed.
There is food enough for everybody if people keep their heads.
But I really see that lots of people are morally and psychologically weak, soft, unfit for anything that is not the comfortable lifestyle they are used to.
Some military life would have helped many...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
The more the situation develops here, the less people learn in other places.
I don’t really get that...
The way to go is to keep quiet and restrain ourselves, in order not to scare anybody and keep the situation under control.
Panic would get people killed.
There is food enough for everybody if people keep their heads.
But I really see that lots of people are morally and psychologically weak, soft, unfit for anything that is not the comfortable lifestyle they are used to.
Some military life would have helped many...
Absolutely Oviedo, very well said. I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviour of some of my fellow countrymen.
These selfish 'individuals' are stressing the supply system for absolutely no reason!
I would happily send in the army, make them put everything back on the shelves and kick their selfish asses all around the supermarket carparks!
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Ovidio,
I totally agree. It must be so clear for you guys in Italy where the virus has peaked and still people continue to die, in terms of what to do and what not to do from your hard fought experience.
Sadly the "pack" mentality is at play when anything like this hits the world. It was the same with Ebola, which was believed to be spreading at an alarming rate, but people who dealt with it, mostly Military Medics like my son, attacked it head on and defeated its spread.
They put their lives on the line as they do everyday.
Ebola virus would have killed everyone had they not been brave, and thats right across the world. He told me the other night, they have only in the last few weeks seen the virus decline in Sierra Leone as things start to level out.
He continues to serve in Kenya now as an Army Medic visiting hospitals in Nairobi in readiness for COVID-19 as part of the UK's assistance to the country.
As you said earlier, it is a pack mentality that leads to selfishness and greed, and it is these individuals we have here in the UK, who do need to look at Italy and the fully stocked supermarkets, and step back and reassess their actions.
To see a Staff Nurse cry having done 63 hours non stop in London wanting to go home to rest before she went back to treat those suffering, to find NOTHING in the supermarket to sustain her health, I think has had an impact on these bastards as it aired on national television on all channels!
We will come through this, with medical workers dedicated to making this a safer world, and it is the Military and specialist test centres who know how to defeat a "Manmade Virus"!!
Stay safe mate :thup:
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1 Attachment(s)
Sorry, I couldn’t refrain myself...:lol:
Attachment 106371
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Our Govt has instructed the other state premiers of Phase 1 restrictions as of 13:00 WST in our state tomorrow Bars, Cinemas , restraunts, sporting venues, churches etc are to be shut, some hotels in Perth may be used as temporary hospitals and Rottnest Island used as a Covid-19 patient exclusion zone with all tourists banned from the island. The herd mentality is alive and well with shelves stripped bare still some people must have stockpiled so much whilst others missed out my wife and I have been tring to get some shite paper 1 packet and some Aborio rice just 1 packet with no luck so will keep trying we have enough for a month but they are talking a 6 month period to get through this pandemic and even 12 months.
I feel for all the health professionals here our Govt in Western Australia has said they do not have enough ventilators and the Dr's are going to be faced with the decisions like is being made in Italy on who lives or dies due to the lack of resources. Yes our Govt has stated we will be stronger after this but it has taught us this we have like others farmed out allot of manufacturing to a certain asian country whilst our facilities have closed now we are finding with the shipping closed there is nothing being produced on an industrial level. One project down south the EPCM had told all the grano teams to pack up and leave site other businesses are being told to buy up on steel and mesh as soon it to will be unobtainiun as we shut Whyalla down years ago our steel mill in Australia.
Ovidio thank you once again for the updates unbiased and open at what is happening in your lovely country we can only pray that you all pull through this most trying time for our planet which ever way this goes fellows all our respective Govt's need to review the way they deal with off shore countries and support local infrastructure not farming it out because it is cheaper on the other side of the fence. I'm off line for a few days chaps working away so will catch you Wednesday stay safe and look after your family.
Lol Ovidio................ :rofl:
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We’ll make it pal. And maybe, after this, we’ll organise a grill party alltogether.
Liked the Wurst Käse scenario, isn’t it?
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Of all the places I read on what is really happening around the globe I must say the members of this site are the most rational bunch I know of !!!! Thank you all for your true reporting of what is happening to the common man !!! In my opinion our political powers and media are making thing worse. Again, thank you all and I hope you, your families and friends all make it. From the Blue Ridge Mts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gil Boyd
To see a Staff Nurse cry having done 63 hours non stop in London wanting to go home to rest before she went back to treat those suffering, to find NOTHING in the supermarket to sustain her health, I think has had an impact on these bastards as it aired on national television on all channels!
I doubt it.
But, I also don't understand why the NHS/Govt haven't put measures in place to provide for NHS staff. They should have made arrangements for priority online deliveries to NHS staff at their place of work that could collect immediately on ending shift.
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In the absence of finite advice on how to deal with the virus if it hits you at home other than to self isolate and stay inside and don't mix, spelled out by the Governments, here is a different response from an expert who served hard to prevent its spread which is worth reading, especially the hot drinks and how to treat it.
I personally think it has some great information in it, but one has to follow LOCAL advice too to compliment your recovery.
From a young researcher who had been transferred from Shenzhen to Wuhan to collaborate with the task force that is fighting the coronavirus epidemic, we receive and willingly transmit to all of this clear, simple and accessible information, which describe exactly what it is. The virus, how it transfers from one person to another and how it can be neutralized in everyday life.
Corona virus infection does not cause a cold with a dripping nose or catarrhal cough, but a dry and dry cough: this is the easiest thing to know.
The virus does not resist heat and dies if exposed to temperatures of 26-27 degrees: therefore often consume hot drinks such as tea, herbal tea and broth during the day, or simply hot water: hot liquids neutralize the virus and it is not difficult to drink them. Avoid drinking ice water or eating ice cubes or snow for those in the mountains (children)!
For those who can do it, expose yourself to the sun!
1. The virus crown is quite large (diameter about 400-500 nanometres), therefore any type of mask can stop it: in normal life, special masks are not needed.
On the other hand, the situation is different for doctors and health professionals who are exposed to heavy virus loads and have to use special equipment.
If an infected person sneezes in front of you, three meters away they will drop the virus on the ground and prevent it from landing on you.
2. When the virus is found on metal surfaces, it survives for about 12 hours. So when you touch metal surfaces such as handles, doors, appliances, supports on trams, etc., wash your hands well and disinfect them carefully.
3. The virus can live nested in clothes and fabrics for about 6/12 hours: normal detergents can kill it. For clothes that cannot be washed every day, if you can expose them to the sun and the virus will die.
How it manifests itself:
1. The virus first installs itself in the throat, causing inflammation and a dry throat sensation: this symptom can last for 3/4 days.
2. The virus travels through the humidity present in the airways, descends into the trachea and installs in the lung, causing pneumonia. This step takes about 5/6 days.
3. Pneumonia occurs with high fever and difficulty breathing, it is not accompanied by the classic cold. But you may have the feeling of drowning. In this case, contact your doctor immediately.
How can you avoid it:
1. Virus transmission occurs mostly by direct contact, touching tissues or materials on which the virus is present: washing hands frequently is essential.
The virus only survives on your hands for about ten minutes, but in ten minutes many things can happen: rub your eyes or scratch your nose for example, and allow the virus to enter your throat...
So, for your own good and for the good of others, wash your hands very often and disinfect them!
2. You can gargle with a disinfectant solution that eliminates or minimizes the amount of virus that could enter your throat: in doing so, you eliminate it before it goes down into the trachea and then into the lungs.
3. Disinfect the PC keyboard and mobile phones
The new coronavirus NCP * may not show signs of infection for many days, * before which it cannot be known if a person is infected. But by the time you have a fever and / or cough and go to the hospital, your lungs are usually already in 50% fibrosis and it's too late!
Taiwanese experts suggest doing a simple check that we can do on our own every morning:
Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you successfully complete it without coughing, without discomfort, a sense of oppression, etc., this shows that there is no fibrosis in the lungs, indicating essentially no infection.
In such critical times, do this check every morning in a clean air environment!
These are serious and excellent advice from Japanese doctors who treat COVID-19 cases. Everyone should make sure that their mouth and throat are moist, never DRY. Drink a few sips of water at least every 15 minutes. WHY? Even if the virus gets into your mouth ... water or other liquids will sweep it away through the oesophagus and into the stomach. Once in the belly ... Gastric acid in the stomach will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly ... the virus can get into your trumpets and lungs. It is very dangerous.
Share this information with your family, friends and acquaintances, for * solidarity and civic sense *
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To see a Staff Nurse cry having done 63 hours non stop in London wanting to go home to rest before she went back to treat those suffering, to find NOTHING in the supermarket to sustain her health, I think has had an impact on these bastards as it aired on national television on all channels!
I saw her and felt bad...
But I don’t really think those who did that to her and everybody else will understand.
What I’m finding out in these days is that there are people who think coolly, people who are scared and people who just switch off their civil brain and turn to the beast we all have inside.
I’m worried, I would like to burn and destroy the world out of rage for feeling so powerless...but I don’t and, am ready to bet, will never do it.
Because I have been tought differently, received an education from family and Army which did not include, under any circumstance, that I might step onto others out of panic.
That comes from the upbringing each of us had, but also quite a lot from what life under military rules has tought us all. I thank the Lord that I could do my duty, and that I could do it as an officer in the Alpini.
That has been a life-changer.
And I keep profiting of it!
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As all those that have served will concure with you mate.:thup:
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Cuba's health service has a good rep that will never be mentioned in the Western press. They have a drug that can help with Covid19.
COVID-19 surged in the Chinese city of Wuhan in late December 2019 and by January 2020 it had hit Hubei province like a tidal wave, swirling over China and rippling out overseas. The Chinese state rolled into action to combat the spread and care for those infected. Among the 30 medicines the Chinese National Health Commission selected to fight the virus was a Cuban anti-viral drug Interferon Alpha 2b. This drug has been produced in China since 2003, by the enterprise ChangHeber, a Cuban-Chinese joint venture.
Cuban Interferon Alpha 2b has proven effective for viruses with characteristics similar to those of COVID-19. Cuban biotech specialist, Dr Luis Herrera Martinez explained that ‘its use prevents aggravation and complications in patients, reaching that stage that ultimately can result in death.’ Cuba first developed and used interferons to arrest a deadly outbreak of the dengue virus in 1981, and the experience catalysed the development of the island’s now world-leading biotech industry.
The world’s first biotechnology enterprise, Genetech, was founded in San Francisco in 1976, followed by AMGen in Los Angeles in 1980. One year later, the Biological Front, a professional interdisciplinary forum, was set up to develop the industry in Cuba. While most developing countries had little access to the new technologies (recombinant DNA, human gene therapy, biosafety), Cuban biotechnology expanded and took on an increasingly strategic role in both the public health sector and the national economic development plan. It did so despite the US blockade obstructing access to technologies, equipment, materials, finance and even knowledge exchange. Driven by public health demand, it has been characterised by the fast track from research and innovation to trials and application, as the story of Cuban interferon shows.
Interferons are ‘signalling’ proteins produced and released by cells in response to infections which alert nearby cells to heighten their anti-viral defences. They were first identified in 1957 by Jean Lindenmann and Aleck Isaacs in London. In the 1960s Ion Gresser, a US-researcher in Paris, showed that interferons stimulate lymphocytes that attack tumours in mice. In 1970s, US oncologist Randolph Clark Lee, took up this research.
Catching the tail end of US President Carter’s improved relations with Cuba, Dr Clark Lee visited Cuba, met with Fidel Castro and convinced him that interferon was the wonder drug. Shortly afterwards, a Cuban doctor and a haematologist spent time in Dr Clark Lee’s laboratory, returning with the latest research about interferon and more contacts. In March 1981, six Cubans spent 12 days in Finland with the Finnish doctor Kari Cantell, who in the 1970s had isolated interferon from human cells, and had shared the breakthrough by declining to patent the procedure. The Cubans learned to produce large quantities of interferon.
Within 45 days of returning to the island, they had produced their first Cuban batch of interferon, the quality of which was confirmed by Cantell’s laboratory in Finland. Just in time, it turned out. Weeks later Cuba was struck by an epidemic of dengue, a disease transmitted by mosquitos. It was the first time this particularly virulent strand, which can trigger life-threatening dengue haemorrhagic fever, had appeared in the Americas. The epidemic affected 340,000 Cubans with 11,000 new cases diagnosed every day at its peak. 180 people died, including 101 children. The Cubans suspected the CIA of releasing the virus. The US State Department denied it, although a recent Cuban investigation claims to provide evidence that the epidemic was introduced from the US.
Cuba’s Ministry of Public Health authorised the use of Cuban interferon to halt the dengue outbreak. It was done at great speed. Mortality declined. In their historical account, Cuban medical scientists Caballero Torres and Lopez Matilla wrote: ‘It was the most extensive prevention and therapy event with interferon carried out in the world. Cuba began to hold regular symposia, which quickly drew international attention’. The first international event in 1983 was prestigious; Cantell gave the keynote speech and Clark attended with Albert Bruce Sabin, the Polish American scientist who developed the oral polio vaccine.
Convinced about the contribution and strategic importance of innovative medical science, the Cuban government set up the Biological Front in 1981 to develop the sector. Cuban scientists went abroad to study, many in western countries. Their research took on more innovative paths, as they experimented with cloning interferon. By the time Cantell returned to Cuba in 1986, the Cubans had developed the recombinant human Interferon Alfa 2b which has benefited thousands of Cubans since then. With significant state investment, Cuba’s showpiece Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology (CIGB) was opened in 1986. By then Cuba was submerged in another health crisis, a serious outbreak of Meningitis B, which further spurred Cuba’s biotechnology sector.
Cuba’s Meningitis Miracle
In 1976, Cuba was struck by meningitis B and C outbreaks. Since 1916 only a few isolated cases had been seen on the island. Internationally, vaccines existed for Meningitis A and C, but not for B. Cuban health authorities secured a vaccine from a French pharmaceutical company to immunise the population against type C Meningitis. However, in the following years, cases of type B Meningitis began to rise. A team of specialists from different medical science centres was established, led by a woman biochemist, Concepción Campa, to work intensively on finding a vaccine.
By 1984 Meningitis B had become the main health problem in Cuba. After six years of intense work, Campa’s team produced the world’s first successful Meningitis B vaccine in 1988. A member of Campa’s team, Dr Gustavo Sierra recalled their joy: ‘this was the moment when we could say it works, and it works in the worst conditions, under pressure of an epidemic and among people of the most vulnerable age.’ During 1989 and 1990, three million Cubans, those most at risk, were vaccinated. Subsequently, 250,000 young people were vaccinated with the VA-MENGOC-BC vaccine, a combined Meningitis B and C vaccination. It recorded 95% efficacy overall, with 97% in the high-risk three months to six years age group. Cuba’s Meningitis B vaccine was awarded a UN Gold Medal for global innovation. This was Cuba’s meningitis miracle.
‘I tell colleagues that one can work 30 years, 14 hours a day just to enjoy that graph for 10 minutes,’ Agustin Lage, Director of the Centro for Molecular Immunology (CIM) told me, referring to an illustration of the rise and sudden fall of Meningitis B cases in Cuba. ‘Biotechnology started for this. But then the possibilities of developing an export industry opened up, and today, Cuban biotechnology exports to 50 countries.’
Since its first application to combat dengue fever, Cuba’s interferon has shown its efficacy and safety in the therapy of viral diseases including Hepatitis B and C, shingles, HIV-AIDS and dengue. Because it interferes with viral multiplication within cells, it has also been used in the treatment of different types of carcinomas. Time will tell if Interferon Alfa 2b proves to be the wonder drug as far as COVID-19 goes.
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Now may be the time for super markets to remove the "special offers" still seen on some of the empty shelves.
Perhaps now is also the time to introduce strict rationing, more strict than is currently carried out by the supper markets, where everyone has a share of what is available even if that share is small.
Unless people have suddenly changed their diets to one that is very rich in fruit and vegetables, one wonders how much of the fruit and veg that has been panic bought will ultimately end up in landfill?
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Vast majority of UK population can't grasp what social distancing means.....as they are simply too selfish and frankly too thick, which is why this country will be in a serious mess within 2-3 weeks.
An example of the difference in queues outside a UK supermarket this weekend, and what is happening in Italy (and from a friend who lives there, in Spain now also)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rX15MS4K-1.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gil Boyd
It must be so clear for you guys in Italy where the virus has peaked
Gil, I truly regret having to say this, but the virus has not peaked. For anyone who is interested in the statistics (collated by Johns Hopkins and the WHO, I understand), please go to Worldometer
Coronavirus Update (Live): 338,092 Cases and 14,456 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer
In Italy, the daily increase is RISING.
Italy Coronavirus: 59,138 Cases and 5,476 Deaths - Worldometer
In other words, the infection is accelerating. It has NOT peaked. And what really disturbs me is that since the Italian emergency measures were activated on 10. March and the incubation period is supposed to be typically 2-4 days, in the 12 days that have since elapsed there should have been a slowing in new infections. That has not occurred. Which raises the question as to whether there is something about the method of transmission that has not yet been recognized.
As for the US, the curve of new infections is extremely steep. In fact, if you choose the logarithmic scaling option it is a roughly straight line, and from this one can see that if nothing happens to slow the virus down, then the USA is heading for 100,000 cases by the end of the month - maybe the end of next week. Then 1 million 10 days later ... and then... there really is no time at all for academic discussion.
And I must stress that this is not my opinion, or something "heard down at the pub", but serious - very serious - figures from an authoritative source.
If the social distancing method does not work, then we are all in very, very deep trouble.
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Everybody has concerns, but there are an awful lot of people who are terrified for themselves their children and their loved ones which is understandable, however, what this ultimately leads to is greed and selfishness, and a survival instinct.
This is when unfortunately Law Enforcement in whatever package that comes in, whether its Police up front/Military or Private Sector it has to take action "for the greater good" and be very effective at it, otherwise it can have an opposite effect.
I think on balance it is a cultural issue, when you weigh up western communities who, generally, are well off and take everything for granted, when I then balance that to Sierra Leone, and other African States I have witnessed, where families had very little or nothing when the Ebola virus struck. It was horrendous, when Red Cross parcels for instance turned up as you can imagine, it was a battle ground for those tasked to restore order, as people clambered for items they deemed a survival need like water and food!
We, in the west have to balance the risks, and I think all the advisory groups including the Chief Medical Officers staff are doing an outstanding job on "real time " assessment of the epidemiology that covers this one virus currently.
Its no time for politics in this, we need as a world to have rational, sensible and educated people in these fields show their true metal and bring to the coal face their expertise to kill this virus soon, which I strongly believe they will do "together".
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Countermand! Not all factories and businesses will close down.
The Association of the Industry has kicked the butt of the government for the unclear, amateurish way the MP informed “we the people” yesterday night at 23:30... Through facebook...
It is absolutely important to have a clear, professional management of public information.
This is, at the moment, the biggest limit in the way this situation is being handled.
That could lead to big trouble and even more severe losses! Both human and economical.
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I don't know the validity of this but it has been reported by an Israeli doctor working in Italy.
They are no longer using respirators on anyone over the age of 60. That if true is not a good sign at all.
Here it has been quiet all day, perhaps because we didn't go anywhere and watched the Mandorilian half the day. I can't find anyone really talking about it. It may simply be the people I'm friends with on social media that are calm, I don't know Will be heading out to play Pokemon probably a little later. Most everyone I see when out is practicing social distancing and using hand sanitizer. Half my pokemon friends are afraid to leave their homes even though they are safe playing from their cars which is what I do. They wrapped temporary fencing around the park playgrounds. No one was frantic yesterday on our last trip to the markets. No shelter in place order happened either. I spent a few hours locating certain "items" and securing them where there is easy access. No where near the feeling they will be needed, the preper part of me is just doing the "BE PREPARED" thing.
Admittedly part of keeping calm today was avoiding the network news. They seem still to be more interested in how they can blame and criticize Trump for all of this.
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Interesting that in Australia we have a commonwealth of six states and two territories headed by the Federal Government. The States manage their jurisdiction in their manner, but come under the Federal Government for the its areas of responsibility, as stated in the Australian Constitution, which include defence and foreign affairs; trade, commerce and currency; immigration; postal services, telecommunications and broadcasting; transportation; most social services and pensions.
Now on the weekend, the Prime Minister was working with each of the State and Territory leader to prepare a unified approach to public health. One of the things that was supposed to happen was that business and workplaces were to remain open, as were schools and other supporting services. This morning, we hear that only one of the states has followed the PMs requirement. The rest have panicked and closed up everything. Utter stupidity.
While reduction is a sensible and measured approach, there is an underlying essential requirement for all democratic states to adhere to and that's continue to generate trade and commerce. You need revenue to generate taxes that pay for pubic benefits. No revenue, no tax, no Government money, no handouts.
Supporting Gil's view, this closure will destroy many businesses, both small and medium. Many self employed people will go broke. The net result, an economy destroyed, on the basis of fear and lack of risk management. The reality of unintended consequences is large when you consider only part of the factual elements of a situation you're trying to manage.
The images of queues at supermarkets in Britain and Italy show the difference between ignorant recklessness and risk measured discipline. I'll go with the latter. In my view, the Premiers and Chief Minsters have adopted the former approach on the weekend, here. I'm really struggling as it's my state Premier that didn't defy the PM's requirements, but I suspect that's more out of ineptitude than sound judgement. And there are other political ramifications that may change that later today...
Another things I believe we need to wake up to. And that's 'social distancing.' It's wrong and foolish to perpetuate. We need physical distancing to minimise the effective spread of droplets from one person to another to stem the transmission of the virus. We do need social connection and closeness in such a time.
So, thanks to Ovidio in the fist place for bringing a global community together to discuss this and support one another through measured discussion and debate on how to effectively manage this. Well done, that man. :thup:
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Patrick,
Agree totally, this for us, the UK, is just the beginning. I used the analogy, only to assume a peak must have been reached in an area of Italy, as the virus slows and whether it had been identified, due to social distancing or something else we can all use.
My point was, the way people conduct themselves in these times which I am sure many of us have seen in our combined services to our countries, is exactly what we knew was going to happen and often spelt out in training on mass riots and lawlessness.
Everything will in the next few weeks change forever, a Police Service that will have to adapt to new styles of "Policing by Consent", a Military that will have to instantly absorb the consequences of "civvies" in mealt down and deal with it, without losing their cool, a Government that will have to make some serioulsy drastic decisions, so in short, it is up to the rest of us to keep sensible people dominating the streets and help those who have always been there to save life as best we can.
I am forever an optimist, and I will hope to be back on the range by the end of the year, and hope by that time the virus is defeated in most areas, or at least slowed to a trickle that can be sorted with a vaccine or a drug that is already out there not thought about its use yet.
In the meantime, lets all think of others and remain practising Social Distancing and restraint!;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
I don't know the validity of this but it has been reported by an Israeli doctor working in Italy.
They are no longer using respirators on anyone over the age of 60. That if true is not a good sign at all.
That might be the case in Bergamo and Brescia, but I’m not sure of elsewhere.
We have real triage being done, but until now we heard only of the absolutely worst cases not being treated. Some hopeless cases have been sedated and let go. That will leave scars in the medical personnel and not only in them. But it is not systematic throughout Italy.
It is certainly a very limited area where it happens.
Today we had less infections and less dead. First time since all this started. Think positive!!!
People, at least here, are behaving in a splendid way. Today I have seen or heard maybe three cars passing by my home in the whole day. Eerie...
I’m struggling not to go out in the fields and vineyards for my daily training, but decided against that, even if theoretically still allowed in places like here. I decided that, although I would not endanger anyone and also not break any rules, this time each of us needs to set an example. For himself, his family, for all other people. I blew the dust off my treadmill and started playing the hamster...
I’ll have my “revenge” soon!
Last June I convinced a friend of mine and we went from San Vito to Bibione by foot. Left at 04:00 and reached the beach at 14:00. After 48 km, 4 brief stops and 3 aperitivi with friends along the way:D
All in all, we walked for 8 hours and 10 minutes. Starting with 20’C and arriving with 38...
That was tough, actually, the only difficulty has been that horrendous heat in the humid air we have here in summer. Feet were in a bad shape and, after the last three hot hours, also the “rear cheeks” were starting to get reddish...
But I’ll do it again, just for the fun of it.
And to spit out all the frustration of these weeks.
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That is great you're finally seeing a reduction in cases.
As for going outside, it is recommended. Sunlight helps with vitamin production and they are actually encouraging people to go out and walk, just not get near anyone.
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Spanish Police appear to have found a novel way to raise spirits.
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What can bad communication cause?
I spent the whole day, and still have teleconferences, Skype-meetings and WhatsApp meetings with customers from all over the world, all worried because Italy "has hut down everything"...
One idiot talking on Facebook before even writing down the new limitations and the damage is enormous.
I have machines or complete lines to deliver in the coming months and in each and every contract there is the clause that, in case of "acts of God" or other totally abnormal circumstances, the contracts can be canceled. And those idiots, one a lawyer, his PR-Manager a "Big Brother" participant, are ruling one of the world's leading countries like absolute...reckless idiots (again).
I wish they had to earn their money to survive, like everybody else, but now they are in the big game of politics, so they will never have this marginal problem any more...
Apart for this, everything is still more or less fine.
The first people I knew are dead from the virus or complications thereof.
It is humbling.
One was a coach of one of Italy's first American Football teams, founded in the late '70s, the other was a lineman I played against lots of times.
Both in or around Milan.
Too bad...
We keep working as usual.
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This has been a very intriguing thread to follow.
Thought I'd check in from the St. Louis area. Cases are building quick here and the city mayor as well as the county executive have instituted stay at home orders.
They're incredibly weak currently. They have exempted 22 types of business...as well as businesses that supply those businesses.
My day job is in manufacturing. Since construction is an exempted business and we supply mainly to the construction industry, we're rolling along as usual.
I suspect once Missouri issues their stay at home order (only a matter of time, if I were to guess) it will be much more strict.
We're doing what we can to keep our people paid for as long as we can. We know how fortunate we are!!
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I'm in construction and I'm not exempt. My suppliers are however. Has me aggravated because construction is an exempted category according to federal guidelines but my state which is supposed to be following the federal guidelines still shut it down. I can do emergency repairs only.
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Feel sorry for all the delivery guys and girls and also the supermarket workers who have to stay open whilst everything is closing around them.
I would hazard a guess the UK will close down within 10 days, and the Army and Police will take over on movements.
If you look outside now, you would'nt think things had changed at all, the usual people coming home from work.
Surprised to hear the construction agencies of the great state of Pennsylvania are struggling. Normally lone workers like that soldier on regardless cos they have to.
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Friday, when I went buying at our supermarket, I thanked all workers for keeping on the good work.
They were very surprised and also really glad that someone noticed and cared to tell them.
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Construction wouldn't be struggling if the Governor didn't shut us down. I personally have work as do most other companies. But under threat of losing our licenses and being fined or put in jail, it isn't worth the risk at this point. If this goes on for more than a few weeks however, that's a different story. Construction is on the list of essential businesses at the federal level.
As for what I'm doing, watching all the ammunition in the country dry up before my eyes along with most of the accessories needed like magazines and clips. I did find a seller of 7.62x39 this morning but it will be four weeks before I get it. Tried installing a steel magazine that I had here already in my SKS but it was a piece of crap and restored the original. Ordered two plastic promags today. Ordered 10 Garand clips last night, they actually were not hard to find. AK and AR magazines are all gone. I have a few, just have to find them.
Anti gunners are starting to panic and are trying to use this crisis and the massive ammo purchases to try to legislate the sale of ammunition. They want all purchasers to be licensed and for each purchase to go through a background check. Isn't going to go anywhere but it is what it is.
All the counties directly to the east of ours has been placed under shelter in place orders. Almost sounds the same as what we are under now as you can still go out for essentials and exercise but you are supposed to practice social distancing. That is something which we seem capable of doing extremely well. No one is pushing around, everyone stays clear of everyone else. Not sure if it is a natural sense of individualism, distrust, paranoia or actually listening to the government for once in our lives but we are doing it. Except for the damn kids. They still think it's party time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
Friday, when I went buying at our supermarket, I thanked all workers for keeping on the good work.
They were very surprised and also really glad that someone noticed and cared to tell them.
Simple kindness.That is the attitude that will get us thru. Underlying preparedness for those who have none (kindness) is in order as well.
---------- Post added at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
As for what I'm doing, watching all the ammunition in the country dry up before my eyes
Made the mistake of trying to organize some ammo in a safe yesterday. Talk about exponential spread. I still can't see how it all fit before removal.
Odd how it grows when you remove it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
watching all the ammunition in the country dry up before my eyes along with most of the accessories needed like magazines and clips.
Surprisingly there is a lot of surplus 7.62x25 ammo on the market for the Tokarev; J&G Sales and Classic Firearms seem to have plenty. For commercial ammo that's a different story. I like to buy from TargetSportsUSA, one of the few places that will still ship to me as a C&R holder in California, two weeks ago I put an alert on some of the Sellier & Bellot 7.62x25mm Tokarev Ammo so I was made aware that they got some in stock. I received the text alert 7:45 AM after a conference call I logged into my account, about 8:30 AM and only 1 box was left. Hardly worth ordering because of the shipping cost, so I ordered it and a bunch of PPU 200Gn Match 8MM Mauser Ammo that I needed anyhow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
Except for the damn kids. They still think it's party time.
And that will be our undoing, by the way...there's older ones that are of the same mind set.
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Tokarev ammo I have sufficient quantities. I apparently bought a box of commercial every time I went to Cabelas and bought hundreds of rounds of surplus when I ran across it. I have a PPS-43 in addition to the M57 and it's fun to shoot so I was buying all I could find locally and only took it to the range the one time. I never bought a spam can but I have enough. I did order a couple of extra magazines today. Nice to not have to take the time to load 35 rounds in a spot.
My weak spots were of course the two calibers that are the most effective, AR and AK ammo. Those I ordered also.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
browningautorifle
And that will be our undoing, by the way...there's older ones that are of the same mind set.
Tell me about it Jim, the utter fuc*whits spent last weekend partying here, the government has had no choice but to react and as a result, the whole of the UK has just gone into complete lockdown....
I (and many others) will struggle to keep our businesses operational and viable over the next three months...
Just 'so many' retarded Millennials (and older idiots), who can't grasp the gravity of what's right in front of them!
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We haven't taken drastic measures yet. They'll wait until it's too late...
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Just to teach us all how it is possible not to learn from others. I think one country should have sufficed in terms of mistakes, but I’m slowly starting to think that we only took the lead in a worldwide competition...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
Just to teach us all how it is possible not to learn from others. I think one country should have sufficed in terms of mistakes, but I’m slowly starting to think that we only took the lead in a worldwide competition...
Thank you so much for your daily reports from Italy Oviedo, you have given us far more consistent information than the various news feeds!
The proverbial sticky stuff has just hit the fan here, day one of lock down and you can hear a pin drop in my usually busy town..
The Police need to be ready to to put the boot in were nessasary, the idiots usually just ignore them here...
Out with the tazer boys.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrclark303
Thank you so much for your daily reports from Italy Oviedo, you have given us far more consistent information than the various news feeds!
The proverbial sticky stuff has just hit the fan here, day one of lock down and you can hear a pin drop in my usually busy town..
The Police need to be ready to to put the boot in were nessasary, the idiots usually just ignore them here...
Out with the tazer boys.....
Thanks, Mr. Clark.
I just report exactly what I see and experience here, plus, every now and then, the feelings one has being in such a situation.
The silence is the first thing one notices, isn't it?
You'll soon be missing the vicinity of people, handshakes, a beer or glass of wine with someone slapping you on the shoulder...such, now I really understand it, priceless things.
But I'm very glad that this thread, which started just to "vent" a bit, seems to be helping people feel a tad less unprepared. And maybe also less alone.
That is really a very big satisfaction.
The fact that my own personal DEFCON still remains at 3 is very good news for me.
I was prepared to raise it to 2, but there is really no need at all for it. Not now...;)
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Its fair to say, the WORLD will be a different place when this is all over. Kissing and shaking hands will, I think take a secondary place in future!!:thup:
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Lot of mixed messages here. A talk show host is essentially saying this is cured with the malaria treatment. No one else is supporting that statement although Trump seems to be indicating it is at the objection of his health advisor. He's also saying this will not last months without going into details on why. I understand his position. There comes a point where the economy is more important than the lives of a small number of people. Not to be cruel but we cannot go back to the stone age because of this, what's the point, and we wouldn't survive anyway. Where is the fine line where more people die from the economy than the virus.
I would like to think he is going to force the FDA's hand and start using these drugs for treatment, they work and this is over is weeks rather than months or years. But we don't know that. Not knowing is the biggest issue I have. I am content to sit in my house for a few weeks, maybe a month but not six months. There has to be a point where we return to function.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
Lot of mixed messages here. A talk show host is essentially saying this is cured with the malaria treatment. No one else is supporting that statement although Trump seems to be indicating it is at the objection of his health advisor. He's also saying this will not last months without going into details on why. I understand his position. There comes a point where the economy is more important than the lives of a small number of people. Not to be cruel but we cannot go back to the stone age because of this, what's the point, and we wouldn't survive anyway. Where is the fine line where more people die from the economy than the virus.
I would like to think he is going to force the FDA's hand and start using these drugs for treatment, they work and this is over is weeks rather than months or years. But we don't know that. Not knowing is the biggest issue I have. I am content to sit in my house for a few weeks, maybe a month but not six months. There has to be a point where we return to function.
The problem is this, any country that doesn't 'systematically' eradicate this virus will be effectively quarantined from the rest of the world, as after putting in huge efforts and paying a massive price, they simply won't let another country re-infect them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrclark303
The problem is this, any country that doesn't 'systematically' eradicate this virus will be effectively quarantined from the rest of the world, as after putting in huge efforts and paying a massive price, they simply won't let another country re-infect them.
If I remember the comments of the epidemiologists I've seen speak online, short of a vaccine, the only way for epidemics like this to pass is for enough people to contract them and recover that widespread immunity simply deprives the virus of new "places to go" and it tapers off.
The virus is mutating so the value of a vaccine would be questionable in any case, unless one owned shares in the company producing it.
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Put this into the mix for educational purposes and show how other countries seem to fair:
Cuba's health service has a good rep that will never be mentioned in the Western press. They have a drug that can help with Covid19.
COVID-19 surged in the Chinese city of Wuhan in late December 2019 and by January 2020 it had hit Hubei province like a tidal wave, swirling over China and rippling out overseas. The Chinese state rolled into action to combat the spread and care for those infected. Among the 30 medicines the Chinese National Health Commission selected to fight the virus was a Cuban anti-viral drug Interferon Alpha 2b. This drug has been produced in China since 2003, by the enterprise ChangHeber, a Cuban-Chinese joint venture.
Cuban Interferon Alpha 2b has proven effective for viruses with characteristics similar to those of COVID-19. Cuban biotech specialist, Dr Luis Herrera Martinez explained that ‘its use prevents aggravation and complications in patients, reaching that stage that ultimately can result in death.’ Cuba first developed and used interferons to arrest a deadly outbreak of the dengue virus in 1981, and the experience catalysed the development of the island’s now world-leading biotech industry.
The world’s first biotechnology enterprise, Genetech, was founded in San Francisco in 1976, followed by AMGen in Los Angeles in 1980. One year later, the Biological Front, a professional interdisciplinary forum, was set up to develop the industry in Cuba. While most developing countries had little access to the new technologies (recombinant DNA, human gene therapy, biosafety), Cuban biotechnology expanded and took on an increasingly strategic role in both the public health sector and the national economic development plan. It did so despite the US blockade obstructing access to technologies, equipment, materials, finance and even knowledge exchange. Driven by public health demand, it has been characterised by the fast track from research and innovation to trials and application, as the story of Cuban interferon shows.
Interferons are ‘signalling’ proteins produced and released by cells in response to infections which alert nearby cells to heighten their anti-viral defences. They were first identified in 1957 by Jean Lindenmann and Aleck Isaacs in London. In the 1960s Ion Gresser, a US-researcher in Paris, showed that interferons stimulate lymphocytes that attack tumours in mice. In 1970s, US oncologist Randolph Clark Lee, took up this research.
Catching the tail end of US President Carter’s improved relations with Cuba, Dr Clark Lee visited Cuba, met with Fidel Castro and convinced him that interferon was the wonder drug. Shortly afterwards, a Cuban doctor and a haematologist spent time in Dr Clark Lee’s laboratory, returning with the latest research about interferon and more contacts. In March 1981, six Cubans spent 12 days in Finland with the Finnish doctor Kari Cantell, who in the 1970s had isolated interferon from human cells, and had shared the breakthrough by declining to patent the procedure. The Cubans learned to produce large quantities of interferon.
Within 45 days of returning to the island, they had produced their first Cuban batch of interferon, the quality of which was confirmed by Cantell’s laboratory in Finland. Just in time, it turned out. Weeks later Cuba was struck by an epidemic of dengue, a disease transmitted by mosquitos. It was the first time this particularly virulent strand, which can trigger life-threatening dengue haemorrhagic fever, had appeared in the Americas. The epidemic affected 340,000 Cubans with 11,000 new cases diagnosed every day at its peak. 180 people died, including 101 children. The Cubans suspected the CIA of releasing the virus. The US State Department denied it, although a recent Cuban investigation claims to provide evidence that the epidemic was introduced from the US.
Cuba’s Ministry of Public Health authorised the use of Cuban interferon to halt the dengue outbreak. It was done at great speed. Mortality declined. In their historical account, Cuban medical scientists Caballero Torres and Lopez Matilla wrote: ‘It was the most extensive prevention and therapy event with interferon carried out in the world. Cuba began to hold regular symposia, which quickly drew international attention’. The first international event in 1983 was prestigious; Cantell gave the keynote speech and Clark attended with Albert Bruce Sabin, the Polish American scientist who developed the oral polio vaccine.
Convinced about the contribution and strategic importance of innovative medical science, the Cuban government set up the Biological Front in 1981 to develop the sector. Cuban scientists went abroad to study, many in western countries. Their research took on more innovative paths, as they experimented with cloning interferon. By the time Cantell returned to Cuba in 1986, the Cubans had developed the recombinant human Interferon Alfa 2b which has benefited thousands of Cubans since then. With significant state investment, Cuba’s showpiece Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology (CIGB) was opened in 1986. By then Cuba was submerged in another health crisis, a serious outbreak of Meningitis B, which further spurred Cuba’s biotechnology sector.
Cuba’s Meningitis Miracle
In 1976, Cuba was struck by meningitis B and C outbreaks. Since 1916 only a few isolated cases had been seen on the island. Internationally, vaccines existed for Meningitis A and C, but not for B. Cuban health authorities secured a vaccine from a French pharmaceutical company to immunise the population against type C Meningitis. However, in the following years, cases of type B Meningitis began to rise. A team of specialists from different medical science centres was established, led by a woman biochemist, Concepción Campa, to work intensively on finding a vaccine.
By 1984 Meningitis B had become the main health problem in Cuba. After six years of intense work, Campa’s team produced the world’s first successful Meningitis B vaccine in 1988. A member of Campa’s team, Dr Gustavo Sierra recalled their joy: ‘this was the moment when we could say it works, and it works in the worst conditions, under pressure of an epidemic and among people of the most vulnerable age.’ During 1989 and 1990, three million Cubans, those most at risk, were vaccinated. Subsequently, 250,000 young people were vaccinated with the VA-MENGOC-BC vaccine, a combined Meningitis B and C vaccination. It recorded 95% efficacy overall, with 97% in the high-risk three months to six years age group. Cuba’s Meningitis B vaccine was awarded a UN Gold Medal for global innovation. This was Cuba’s meningitis miracle.
‘I tell colleagues that one can work 30 years, 14 hours a day just to enjoy that graph for 10 minutes,’ Agustin Lage, Director of the Centro for Molecular Immunology (CIM) told me, referring to an illustration of the rise and sudden fall of Meningitis B cases in Cuba. ‘Biotechnology started for this. But then the possibilities of developing an export industry opened up, and today, Cuban biotechnology exports to 50 countries.’
Since its first application to combat dengue fever, Cuba’s interferon has shown its efficacy and safety in the therapy of viral diseases including Hepatitis B and C, shingles, HIV-AIDS and dengue. Because it interferes with viral multiplication within cells, it has also been used in the treatment of different types of carcinomas. Time will tell if Interferon Alfa 2b proves to be the wonder drug as far as COVID-19 goes.
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An interesting read Gil, perhaps a mix of social isolation, Growing herd immunity and anti vital drugs will eventually do the job.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
Lot of mixed messages here. A talk show host is essentially saying this is cured with the malaria treatment. No one else is supporting that statement although Trump seems to be indicating it is at the objection of his health advisor. He's also saying this will not last months without going into details on why.
Sadly, as you say, the USA's spiraling stats don't bear out any evidence of this wonder cure....but what does a talk show host know :rolleyes:
Trump is saying it will not last months because of fear of spooking the markets and people, but this is counter-productive, as it promotes too much blase attitude among people not taking it seriously enough, as witnessed by the young, old and feckless buggering off to the beaches or generally not heeding the advice about social distancing and thereby creating more of a problem.....which will conversely have an even bigger impact on the economy when it becomes clear just what a **** storm this is. It will be too late by then though.
I'm so glad I moved out of London just after Christmas, I would hate to be where I used to live with this all happening.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gil Boyd
Its fair to say, the WORLD will be a different place when this is all over. Kissing and shaking hands will, I think take a secondary place in future!!:thup:
Gil...I really hope not. I’m not the stereotypical Italian who hugs and kisses everybody, but a nice, strong and friendly handshake, and a slap on the shoulder, are just so good to give and receive...
I’d be sad if people got even more distant than they already are.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gil Boyd
They have a drug that can help with Covid19.
MAY help, there is no evidence yet by the Cubans or the World Health Orginzation.
"Four drugs or drug combinations already licensed and used for other illnesses will be tested, said WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. Ten countries have already indicated they will take part in the trial.
The mere fact the WHO is sponsoring the trial suggests that efforts in China to test these drugs may not have come up with enough data to indicate whether any were of use to prevent patients from developing severe disease or save those with severe disease from death."
Reference: STAT WHO to launch multinational trial to jumpstart search for coronavirus drugs
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The goal in the US is to get large sections of the nation up and running by Easter. Not everywhere and with Cuomo in charge, NY will cease to exist with a wall built around it by the surrounding states. I personally don't know if that is a realistic goal but time will tell. There are huge areas which have no cases. We are a large nation.
My county is up to 10 cases today. We are not doubling each day even with increased testing and 7 total deaths in the state, none here.
The "cure" that was mentioned does seem to be effective, it simply has not been approved and is not in widespread use. Only a few doctors are doing it, possibly without FDA approval or with approval as they are dire cases who may not survive otherwise. According to these doctors and the patients who received it, 5 days is all it takes for complete elimination.
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Again: "The best folks on the internet"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:super:
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My main concern is other family members, getting the virus, currently living in the same house as myself who I would class as "vulnerable" and "extremely vulnerable" and that is why I insist that they stay more than 2m away from me inside my own house. When this is all over I don't want to find that I have lost all or most of my immediate family. My line of thought is that at some point I will get the "virus" but I need to try and delay it as long as possible when, hopefully, the treatments are better.
Thinking of possible ways of reducing or delaying the risk of getting the virus, I thought that somewhere where perhaps I should wear protection is my local supermarket when I buy my groceries. Personally I would be perfectly happy to walk into my local supermarket in a full NBC suit and respirator, carrying my shopping basket but I did wonder if this may alarm others. Short of wearing a full NBC suit or a Hazmat suit, to do my grocery shopping, the other alternative that I came up with was to wear the respirator that normally I use for spray painting that has both charcoal and P3 filters but no eye protection. However, I did still wonder if wearing a full blown respirator to do one's shopping may alarm other shoppers and, therefore, there was only one way to find out if it would be acceptable to the shop, to ask.
I entered the supermarket, with respirator stowed in backpack, and made for "customer services". I explained the current situation in my household to the young chap behind the counter of "customer services", expressed my concerns and then said "Would it be acceptable to this store if the next time that I come in to do my grocery shopping, I have the option of wearing a respirator and not just a dust mask but a full-blown respirator, which covers the mouth and nose but not the eyes? The shop employee replied "I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "respirator"." I replied "I'm not intending to wear full NBC protective equipment or a Hazmat suit just to do my shopping but I was wondering if it would be ok to wear the sort of respirator that you may wear to spay a car or do spray painting with certain types of paint." I then added that "I'm not intending to also spray a car while I'm in here to do my grocery shopping." The assistant then replied "I'd better ask my manager" and so the assistant phoned the manager and described the respirator to the manager after I had shown it to the assistant. The man from Del-monte (the shop manager) finally said yes it would be ok to wear a proper respirator to do one's shopping.
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Restrictions were relaxed a bit here. Gun shops are now allowed to be open but are heavily restricted. Must have an appointment, only one person in the store at a time, etc, etc. Mining operations were restored. Construction was not.
New York's governor is making a huge *** out of himself. He sat around and did almost nothing for the last two weeks except criticize the President. He now is making demands and essentially telling the other 49 states to screw themselves. He also specifically refused to allow the Mayor of NYC to impose his own restrictions. Students were ordered to attend schools right up until Friday of last week. Teachers were told not to inform anyone they were sick and were to report to class.
The federal government apparently has a reserve of 20,000 respirators/ventilators. They sent NY 400. He is demanding more and saying the other states can have them when NY is done with them. He complains he has nothing but gave his latest speech in front of a warehouse of Federally provided masks, gowns, etc using them as a prop instead of distributing them to needed areas. I don't envy the people of NY right now.
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Turning up the heat and opening a window most distant from one's bathroom(?) extraction fan(s) and getting some through-flow of air can help, depending on the outside air quality of course, but if central heating is present and has a humidifier built in, clearly turning that up to raise the ambient humidity to 50 or 60% will dramatically reduce airborne survival times for virus particles. The old vaporizers would work well too. Higher humidity should also help to keep bronchial mucous fluid as well, which white blood cells can apparently move through if it is sufficiently liquid.
Might be the time for those fabled eight glasses of water a day hardly anyone remembers to drink!
Remarkable book.
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It's interesting to note the amount of world governments who are using "three weeks" as the mantra.
It's purely of course because some people will go into blind panic, if they are told it's actually 3 months.
This is a long distance run, not a race and people better get into the right mindset for this looming war of attrition, and soon.
The very best of luck to India, quite frankly with so many crowded together in absolute poverty, shutting down the country will be of marginal utility.
I fear their particular death toll will potentially be enormous.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic guys!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flying10uk
I replied "I'm not intending to wear full NBC protective equipment or a Hazmat suit just to do my shopping but I was wondering if it would be ok to wear the sort of respirator that you may wear to spay a car or do spray painting with certain types of paint." I then added that "I'm not intending to also spray a car while I'm in here to do my grocery shopping." The assistant then replied "I'd better ask my manager"
Did you intentionally try and get him confused?:lol:
I can relate with your fears of infecting family members. If I had elder or people at home with weak immune-system, I'd be very concerned myself.
Ideally, you should live completely confined from each other, even at home. But that may be of extreme difficulty or right out impossible, if the house does not allow it.
Concerning us here in Italy, the situation is tragic, but not serious...
The government keeps changing or talking about changing the list of factories and activities allowed to stay open. They don't know that a factory has a loooong chain of suppliers to keep on working. It can happen when the majority of the so-called leaders have never worked one single day in their whole lives...
Yesterday we wrote a couple dozen letters for the authorities confirming that we can work, actually have to work, and that each of the companies listed in our letters was of crucial importance to us as sub-suppliers, so they also had to be allowed working. Let's see how this one develops...
On the other hand, lots of Cattocommunists (we call those good souls - snowflakes - who think or believe that money is the devil's manure (usually other people's money, not their own) like this, because they are either hyper catholic, without understanding the message, or they are hyper leftist/communists, who don't understand reality, or...both. The absolutely worst ones) are now pushing the unions to start striking against factories that keep up the work. Damned capitalists!!! Damned industrialists!!! Damned private entrepreneurs!!!
I wonder how they think that the system could keep running if some categories started to pull back. And the others? Are they stupid or did they just have the bad luck of getting the wrong job?
In this situation, realism is of utter importance. Political or ideological visions need to be put aside. There is a complex machine that needs to be slowly, gradually slowed down, without shocks, in order to allow it to keep people fed, medically treated, supplied with fuel, water, electricity, good information... and to re-start immediately after the storm.
This requires many of us to keep working. And to do it according to the best possible safety and hygienic measures.
Yesterday I had to go to the factory and follow a test on a machine, not ideal for sanitary reasons, but it is necessary. The guys in the workshop go every day, so why should I pull back? What would the reaction of those other guys be if one who has responsibility suddenly just abandoned the fray? They understand that I'm not considered necessary in the factory, so I have been requested to stay home. But some activities still require my presence, and I have and want to go. If I started pulling back, what would I be in their (and worst of all in my own) eyes?
Another very interesting development of these last three to four days was that we received support from:
- China
- Russia
- Venezuela
- Cuba
- USA (through an NGO)
Czech Republic seized the masks and other items for personal safety that we ordered, releasing them only after diplomatic pressure.
Germany did the same last week.
Turkey too.
Others I can't recall right now did the same as well.
The EU talks of debts, of troikas, of reduced sovereignty for the indebted states, and so on. We wasted a lot and we will have to pay for that, but now they should think of the people, they should help the countries under stress. No...
We haven't seen a single international NGO, with the American exception, help. Not even our own, with the exception of those from military corps (like the Alpini, as usual) or non-political organisations.
All the good souls who spit on us in the past years because of the attempted limitation of illegal immigration have vanished or just keep bringing immigrants to Italy. But don't help. Not at all. Don't even say a word of solidarity.
Probably Italians do not earn their solidarity. They can die.
We'll remember them all.
Now, what will the above listed countries suggest as payback after the crises? I'm sure of what China will ask for. 5G, Road and Belt Initiative, etc. They'll try to buy all possible infrastructures here and force us to back them in the UN for every kind of initiative.
Russia? They will get the international restrictions unilaterally lifted by Italy? Might be a good thing, but should be decided by the parliament, in a free and debated manner. Won't be the case. And, also they, support in the international organisations.
Cuba and Venezuela? Silence about their crimes against their own people? Lifting of embargoes. Back-up at the UN? Again?
I wish the EU would have shown they understood why they exist, what the spirit of the founding fathers was. But they are probably so self-centred that they keep running at full speed against the big wall that is rising in front of them. Bureaucrats are just a different kind of people... Once the Europeans will have seen what the dream developed into, there will be consequences.
Here everything is quiet. People are in complete lock-down. I can go and buy at the small local grocery shop walking or take the car and drive to the supermarket. But I can't leave my small community boundaries if not for going to work.
No real problems anywhere I can see or hear about.
Yesterday, at noon, I went to the local shop and had just two people ahead of me.
Bread, milk, flour, eggs, sauces, salami and ham, gastronomic specialties... Everything available in the usual quantities.
I'm missing a beer, sincerely. I don't want to drive to the supermarket just for booze, so I have to drink water for thirst and have plenty of wine, Prosecco and Grappa for pleasure.
The situation is still tenable.
DEFCON stays stable at three:madsmile:
I'm just writing down the feelings I have hearing news that don't really inform, hearing people talk without any possibility of knowing how competent they are.
We still do not have a clue of when life might start getting, progressively, back to what it was.
I keep the mood up and today I'll reload some .357M, but with light load. Target rounds.
I'll need them sooner or later!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
I'm missing a beer, sincerely. I don't want to drive to the supermarket just for booze, so I have to drink water for thirst and have plenty of wine, Prosecco and Grappa for pleasure.
The situation is still tenable.!
Well, Ovidio, I can feel your pain. Beer, yep, one needs a few on hand and well chilled. Even those Italian ones in a time of crisis... ;)
Grappa, you're sitting pretty there.
But prosecco… Really, man, have you allowed your standards to evaporate in this situation? Good heavens above, if nothing else, the French do still make champagne!
Self esteem, man. Chin up and sort out those bubbles! :yikes:
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You should taste our Prosecco:cheers:
Believe me.
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Mexico City doesn't seem concerned about COVAID-19
https://youtu.be/o3z-MH-xxdI
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The first two nurses committed suicide between yesterday and Friday. One in Lombardy, one close to here.
I'm really saddened but this in a way I would not have expected normally.
These people are subject to such a stress, such a workload...
We shall remember that and start considering them for what they really are worth to a population, paying and respecting their profession as it deserves.
I pray for them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
The first two nurses committed suicide between yesterday and Friday. One in Lombardy, one close to here.
I'm really saddened but this in a way I would not have expected normally.
These people are subject to such a stress, such a workload...
We shall remember that and start considering them for what they really are worth to a population, paying and respecting their profession as it deserves.
I pray for them.
Absolutely, all our healthcare teams are critical, a shining example to us all.
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Ventured out to Walmart and got a flat tire in the process. Was right nest to a tire place so I took it there. Not happy as they said it needed replaced when it needed a plug they are not allowed to put in. In any case. I wasn't going to mess around with it in our current situation and left them do it.
Walmart was almost normal. Most items were in stock with the exceptions of toilet paper, hand sanitizer and isopropyl alcohol. Meat was there, just a little less than normal. Frozen foods fully stocked, vegetables good, canned goods good although I nearly cleaned them out of the little canned ham. I love that stuff and I saw we were out last night when I went to get a can. I got 8, they had 9. That's kind of a normal purchase for me. Got a birthday cake for the wife and a small gift, a movie she likes. The rest will have to wait.
Traffic light, Walmart seemed about normal but the checkouts had more than usual, might be because I use self checkout and those that usually use live checkouts were using self also. I didn't think to look.
Our county had no increase in number of cases since yesterday which seems odd. Pennsylvania as a whole is increasing and an additional county was added to the stay home order.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aragorn243
I love that stuff and I saw we were out last night when I went to get a can. I got 8, they had 9. That's kind of a normal purchase for me. Got a birthday cake for the wife and a small gift, a movie she likes. The rest will have to wait.
About the same as here no TP no soup & happy birthday to the better half.
My brother in law said he is stocked up with Spam to which I quickly replied that I would boil and eat my belt and shoes before I would eat Spam.
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Just been informed that the criteria for the factories allowed to stay open have been changed again. Now, we apparently again have to close down. Third change in four days. Saturday close, Sunday open, Wednesday close...
Suppliers to the food and pharma industry.
I guess that a drunk Charlie Chaplin would be more serious as a MP.
When idiots rule, normal people feel their hands itch...
Again...clear, understandable and unmistakable information. The pros from Dover...
Let’s see tomorrow what happens.
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I love spam. We have 5 cans of it. My kids like it too but my wife won't eat it. I was putting stuff away and spotted it. I'm having spam sandwiches for lunch tomorrow. fry it up, put it in toast with a slice of cheese. mmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Chatted with a friend from NY today. She isn't a Cuomo fan but thinks he's doing a good job at the moment. I think she isn't getting the same information I am getting being out of state. She also lives in a rural area far from the capital and NYC.
County cases went up by 2 today to 12.
All I know at the moment is I'm eating too much, not getting enough sleep or exercise. My wife has recovered from her overnight illness, feeling normal now. Possibly something she ate which is funny, she refuses to eat the expired food and I ate a can of oranges that expired 5 years ago last night. Found that to be the biggest weakness of our food supply, she hasn't been rotating it the way I told her too. Had to dispose of a lot of the boxed items. Found little debbies that were 3 years out of date. They were hard and crumbly. Did not try eating one. I'm not worried about canned stuff so long as the can isn't leaking and it looks and smells fine when I open it.
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Correct : look, smell, taste. Most times food will still be good.
Actually some foodstuff is better close to the expiry date than fresh. That is due to the short shelf-life, which forces the producers to put certain things in the market before they are completely ripe. Soft cheese is a very good example. Certosa, stracchino... The quality manager of one of Italy’s main dairy factories told me that. He suggested to eat their products in the last week before expiry or even after that. Just following the above rule: look, smell and, if everything is still ok, taste.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
Just been informed that the criteria for the factories allowed to stay open have been changed again. Now, we apparently again have to close down. Third change in four days. Saturday close, Sunday open, Wednesday close...
Suppliers to the food and pharma industry.
I guess that a drunk Charlie Chaplin would be more serious as a MP.
When idiots rule, normal people feel their hands itch...
Again...clear, understandable and unmistakable information. The pros from Dover...
Let’s see tomorrow what happens.
If you wan't a lesson in confusion and ambiguity you could have tried the UK early this week.
The UK Prime Minister gives a speech, Monday evening, and tells the nation to "stay at home" except in certain circumstances. He went on to tell us that we should work from home, if possible, and only travel to work if absolutely necessary to do our work/job. Some of the press in the UK interpreted these comments as meaning that people should stay at home unless they were employed in doing "essential work" such as working in health care, for example, and that is what some of the press reported. Come Tuesday morning a significant number of the UK workforce who couldn't work from home didn't know if they were supposed to go into work or stay at home.
I based my decision to go into work Tuesday morning on what our Prime Minister actually said and not what some of the media reported.
Watch again: Boris Johnson tightens national lockdown amid coronavirus crisis - YouTube
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Well back from my sojurn in Perth what a place very different businesses are hurting the Govt (State or Federal) is looking at businesses being able to hybernate for 7 months no bills, rent or taxes to pay we will see.
So sorry to hear about those 2 nurses this stuff needs to be out there so others can see the real tradgedy of this totally and wholey, nursing staff care for humanity and the things they have seen of late must have traumatised them to the soul so sad that is to hear I hope they find the peace from the terrible scenes witnessed where they worked.
We have 4 cruise ships here off our coast by a few kilometers up near fremantle harbour our premier does not want them here and has activated the Police and a naval patrol boat to ensure no one tries to swim to shore.
Alcohol has been restricted and guess what happened when it was out that it was going to occur oh yes the herd stampeded and stripped bottle shops bare, the police commissioner said what people are buying up equated to 100 standard drinks a day f*cktards again.
I got plenty of ammo on hand and more to load to bolster supplies but honestly it has to end somewhere allot of younger people are treating the social distance as a joke my wife who manages a centerlink office had to get angry at a couple kissing and cuddling when on the door there is a message forbiding it once in the foyer or building and my wife is not to be trifled with when angry compliance was achieved but the guy was a real smart arse.
I have asked my wife to be careful when leaving work she can ring the police and be escorted to her car if she wishes but refuses. We lost another here in W.A in hospital at Joondalup people should be very afraid this virus has the capacity to decimate a good deal of this rocks inhabitants so as has been said do the distancing thing and practice good hand hygiene.
Seems there is a new rare animal thats not been seen before the museum folk have named Shitarseous Toileteus Paperus its rare and hard to find but occaisionaly found in a supermarket for a few seconds...............................!
On that note people down here have found Viva paper towels block sewerage pipes how f*cken stupid are some people its made to soak up liquids, use a tissue if you are out of those grab a bunch of gum leaves or drag you ar*se around the lawn a few times then have a shower disinfect it afterwards Geez thick prawns....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CINDERS
Well back from my sojurn in Perth what a place very different businesses are hurting the Govt (State or Federal) is looking at businesses being able to hybernate for 7 months no bills, rent or taxes to pay we will see.
So sorry to hear about those 2 nurses this stuff needs to be out there so others can see the real tradgedy of this totally and wholey, nursing staff care for humanity and the things they have seen of late must have traumatised them to the soul so sad that is to hear I hope they find the peace from the terrible scenes witnessed where they worked.
We have 4 cruise ships here off our coast by a few kilometers up near fremantle harbour our premier does not want them here and has activated the Police and a naval patrol boat to ensure no one tries to swim to shore.
Alcohol has been restricted and guess what happened when it was out that it was going to occur oh yes the herd stampeded and stripped bottle shops bare, the police commissioner said what people are buying up equated to 100 standard drinks a day f*cktards again.
I got plenty of ammo on hand and more to load to bolster supplies but honestly it has to end somewhere allot of younger people are treating the social distance as a joke my wife who manages a centerlink office had to get angry at a couple kissing and cuddling when on the door there is a message forbiding it once in the foyer or building and my wife is not to be trifled with when angry compliance was achieved but the guy was a real smart arse.
I have asked my wife to be careful when leaving work she can ring the police and be escorted to her car if she wishes but refuses. We lost another here in W.A in hospital at Joondalup people should be very afraid this virus has the capacity to decimate a good deal of this rocks inhabitants so as has been said do the distancing thing and practice good hand hygiene.
Seems there is a new rare animal thats not been seen before the museum folk have named Shitarseous Toileteus Paperus its rare and hard to find but occaisionaly found in a supermarket for a few seconds...............................!
On that note people down here have found Viva paper towels block sewerage pipes how f*cken stupid are some people its made to soak up liquids, use a tissue if you are out of those grab a bunch of gum leaves or drag you ar*se around the lawn a few times then have a shower disinfect it afterwards Geez thick prawns....
Well put Ron, we've had the same sort of issues here, they say that the hording is starting to taper off in the UK, as it seems to be slowly dawning on the fuc*wits that the world isn't ending just yet!
The UK has been slow in getting into gear, but a wartime mentality is getting going, with Dyson (5 miles from me) setting up to make 10,000 ventilators.
They have a high end manufacturing, design and development factory here, so perfectly positioned to turn to 'war production' .
There's an echo of Triang Toys and Lines Brothers Sten Mk3 about this..
Amazing what can be done, when it has to be.
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So, a lot of customers (multinationals all of us know) have sent us letters of recommendations because our production is strategic for the safety and quality of the food produced by them and helped us get a special permission for keeping up the work.
We're back in the saddle...until the government does not invent some new Bravo Sierra...
I'm very happy, anyway!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CINDERS
Seems there is a new rare animal thats not been seen before the museum folk have named Shitarseous Toileteus Paperus its rare and hard to find but occaisionaly found in a supermarket for a few seconds...............................!
On that note people down here have found Viva paper towels block sewerage pipes how f*cken stupid are some people its made to soak up liquids, use a tissue if you are out of those grab a bunch of gum leaves or drag you ar*se around the lawn a few times then have a shower disinfect it afterwards Geez thick prawns....
A friend of my family who has visited/traveled in parts of North Africa once told me that it is "custom" in certain parts of North Africa for the locals to have a hosepipe hanging up in the "bathroom" instead of toilet paper as this is the preference. He went onto tell me that he had tried "the hose pipe method", strictly for research purposes, and that he could report that it gave one a "nice refreshing sensation".
If and when stores do experience supply problems with toilet rolls in the coming weeks and months ahead, retailers may like to stack short lengths of garden hose on the vacant shelves, normally occupied by toilet paper.
One would hope that by making this constructive suggestion here, it will not initiate a sudden rush, by consumers, to procure garden hose and create a global shortage that manufacturers can not keep pace with.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flying10uk
He went onto tell me that he had tried "the hose pipe method", strictly for research purposes, and that he could report that it gave one a "nice refreshing sensation".
Yes, it does take some bravery to sample the bum gun... They're very common in Asia, Africa, Arabia... seems the be a theme there.
Personally, while asking "What have the Romans ever done for us?" I do acknowledge 'Sanitation' very quickly. Credit where Credit's due... ;)
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Yes, the pipe... I’ve seen it very often in bathrooms in North Africa and Arab countries. Never used them. It seems to me just like an underdeveloped bidet:lol:
And back here we are:lol::lol::lol:
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Watch the water pressure with that set up, or you may end up with freckles!
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Some weird information circulating around here concerning the danger of the corona virus. Not sure what to make of it. Supposedly the model everyone is basing their reactions on came from a group at the Imperial College of London which showed 500,000 deaths in the UK and 2.2 million dead in the US has been revised to 20,000 or fewer in the UK and that health systems are not likely to be overwhelmed. I would think Italy and Spain would dispute this just a bit.
In any case, Trump's team leader now seems to be supporting this revised theory. Meanwhile, articles are coming out wondering why Los Angeles has a much less severe problem than NYC. In the article it's staring them in the face but they refuse to accept that the delay and poor leadership in NY is the primary cause.
Nothing much changed here. Our county infected number rose to 21. What I find puzzling is that Pennsylvania's testing is showing the vast majority tested do not have it. This is puzzling because they aren't supposed to test unless you are showing symptoms. We have roughly 1600 cases and 16,000 have been tested and do not have it. 16 have died which is 1% of those that get it which is pretty high compared to the flu but again, we don't know how many have it but never get tested because they are not severely sick. So basically only 1 in 11 that have been tested with symptoms is coming back positive. I've not noticed anyone else actually reporting negative test results so don't know if this is significant or not. So what did those 16,000 have, the flu?
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Not going to say much but there was a Doctor on F/B explaining the size of China and a tiny little speck where Wuhan and the famed fish market with bat wing and not 20 miles from there is apparently China's Class 4 pathogen facilty amazingly SARS also originated from somewhere near there as well.
Our Govt shut down our gunshops as of midday today thank goodness I have squirelled very well over the last 2 years I have enough on tap to make people of ill intent's day a very bad one indeed, very sadly the fuel theives have been hitting our farmers as if things are not bad enough, I would be very wary of doing anything like that as farmers are apt to shoot first and ask later which I agree with b*gger them turn the baddies into compost.
Yesterday 2 people were badly injured near here riding dirt bikes on a track blind corner and rode flat chat into an excavator. Long story short the owners had put markers there and were going back today but theives removed the markers from the track and along came the bikes Bang!. Chopper called airlifted out, police and firies in attendance. Not to be detered the theives came back and drained the diesel from the tanks others in another town not far from us are bringing fuel pods to servo's. This is so sad for our country which prided itself in the helping hand to complete strangers not now though. I agree with 22sqnRAE's multiculturism blending, the Aussie I knew all those years ago when working on the land in the bush has gone and along with it a tradition that I hold dear to my heart this is so very sad indeed.
All I can do is provide what I can for my family and keep them safe we are at Defcon 2 now with the theiving, the regions are now being locked down no unessential travel as of 23:59 31/03/2020 you cannot cross out of your region unless going to your work the Govt is calling this Phase 2 of 4, Rottnest Island is now a quarantine island and hotels are being commandeered for isolations, the army has being mobilised to help the police but cannot arrest people just monitor and inform the police of isolation breakers people have already been fined $0000's for not being compliant.
The stock market is gearing up for an assault from China as already they have been apparently buying up stuff even before it gets to auction the govt should freeze all stockmarket and land dealings period stopping takeovers at dead bottom prices.
Sadly the worst is coming, to all of you keep safe and look after your loved ones
---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrclark303
Watch the water pressure with that set up, or you may end up with freckles!
:rofl::lol::rofl:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brewer
Redneck engineering
Have you applied for a patent or are you donating you invention to mankind?
Great idea BTW.
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I think looters or other criminals exploiting tragedies (we have gipsies breaking into hospitalised elder people's houses and occupying them at the moment) should be dealt with in a drastic way.
No need to explain it further.
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:thup: Yesss Sir Ovidio I agree 130%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrclark303
Watch the water pressure with that set up, or you may end up with freckles!
Now thats funny :rofl:
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Time to get serious
I belong to that group of "older people with pre-existing conditions" who are more endangered than the average and likely to lose out when it comes to triage.
So this is not a joke, not a rant, but a serious attempt to think through what is obviously going wrong. I may be in error, but if I am right, then THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR EVERYBODY - ESPECIALLY OVIDIO.
The death rate in Italy suggests that the " social distance" and lock-down precautions are NOT working as expected. And I do not think it can be explained away just by people sneaking out to have a drink with friends.
There is one place where everybody is allowed to go - and handle goods that have been handled by other people!
THE SUPERMARKETS (and any other food shops).
It does not matter if you wear a diving suit with breathing apparatus and enter the shop singly. You will be picking up goods that have been handled by other people. Lots of other people. And it does not matter how hygienically the goods have been packed - the packaging itself may have been contaminated on the outside surfaces.
So you come home, take off your protective gear, and then ... unpack the goods, thus touching the contaminated exterior ... and then touch the goods themselves, thus transferring the contamination to the goods.
How to avoid, or at least reduce this risk?
In the shops, a simple "fingering" prohibition on the lines of "you touch it, you buy it" would be sensible, but probably unenforcable.
More effective would be a check on all customers entering a shop that they are wearing disposable gloves - plus the fingering prohibition. No gloves - no admittance.
But some skinflints will cheat with gloves that they have used over and over. Gloves that are themselves contaminated.
So I envisage shops supplying gloves at the door. BTW, I have read that there is (or about to be) a shortage of disposable gloves.
I won't continue unnecessarily, as I think the participants here can work out the consequences themselves. Basically, one needs to think it through all the way from shop to table. Assume that everything you acquire is surface-contaminated - even ammo!
Sorry if this all seems long-winded, but that is OK if it helps anyone.
Keep healthy - and take these precautions.
Patrick
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Yes, this is a problem, and I'm lucky in now having a garage, and when I plan my next supermarket run early next week, I will be doing it before I need any of the contents, and I will be leaving the bag and its contents in the garage for 72 hours, and spray distinfecting the plastic frozen packets before taking inside.
Funnily enough, I was reading advice on the BBC website this afternoon, giving more or less the same advice.
This is much more of a problem if you are a city dweller and have to go out every few days to get food and essentials.
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Interesting isn't it how the most obvious question: what can people do to improve their immune response, and therefore their ability to survive this without medical intervention, is utterly absent from media coverage?
It is clearly impossible for China to have suddenly contained this pandemic by conventional methods, or else other countries could do the same.
So they are either concealing what is really going on, or using methods that are not being reported here.
One of the things not being reported is the use of intravenous Vitamin C in China. I have also seen evidence of good success with some traditional herbal treatments there also.
It was both hilarious and pathetic that while toilet paper sold out, vitamins were in plentiful supply, and still are.
It is obviously wise to do all possible to prevent infection by isolation and hygiene etc., but this is clearly difficult. More important is what can we do to improve our immune response on our own?
The answer is the same common-sense measures that worked to improve health before this crisis and will long after it is gone.
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I've already been doing such, having been instructed in NBCW decades ago. That would be Nuclear, BIOLOGICAL, Chemical warfare... I bring everything home and wash handleables such as apples with soap and water...yes they can be... Use Lysol wipes on milk containers, things with packaging that has to stay, and cut the other things out of their trappings to go into a container/bag from in the house. I wear surgical gloves that used to be for gun cleaning. I use alcohol that was for cleaning my glasses, just purchased in bulk. I have Lysol wipes by the case because that's how I've been used to buying them. I decontaminate the car inside and touch areas outside...it's just like we'd been through the cold war training again... I focus on what was touched like a crook wiping down everything touched for prints. I stood back years ago and noticed how dirty many people were that were shopping for food and the fact that they touched EVERYTHING whether they needed to or not. I've been washing things down for years...
So, I have to agree with Patrick...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patrick Chadwick
Assume that everything you acquire is surface-contaminated
I load my own ammo so...
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Guys, the most vivid memory I have of NBC training during Officer’s School is when my instructor asked me why I looked so annoyed. I told him that I understood the need for that training and, as long as I would be wearing a uniform, I’d be doing my duty. But if anybody started a nuclear or biological war after my time in the military, I’d just prefer to go out walking on a field, in the mountains, anywhere, and just die. Now I have a family and can’t do it anymore, but I still think that would be the best thing. If humankind is so horrendously stupid, then I don’t think I really need to take part any longer.
So, in the end, I will do what I have to for my kids, but in case of a real human responsibility, I’m a bit in a troublesome situation. Seriously...
Just for the kids... And because I can’t decide for them.
I will wash hands, take precautions, not go in crowded places, but I won’t go to extremes. Somehow I just don’t seem to like the idea of being there in a Mad Max world. If the family will be there, yes. Absolutely. If not, well... bye bye, cruel world.
So I am taking it seriously, but not making it too extreme.
Maybe I’ll get lots of backfire, but these are my deepest feelings...
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My county is now apparently on stay at home orders. I anticipated that as the number of cases has reached where the other counties had when they were placed on the same restrictions. I have not yet confirmed it but my daughter just told me. Cases here are 33 with no fatalities.
As for the state, watching the briefing now. We have 2196 total confirmed cases and 22 fatalities. We are nowhere near capacity for hospital beds, ICU beds or ventilators. Something like 10% of cases require hospitalization, 2% require ICU beds and 1% require ventilators. From numbers provided, we are at about 1/3 capacity for total beds and ICU beds and less than that for ventilators.
New cases has leveled off for the day, actually declined slightly but not significantly. Too early to tell if this is a trend. They went up for our county but not for the state as a whole. There remains a swath through the center of the state which has no confirmed cases.
On the above concerns. Very unlikely this is transmitted by handling supermarket items or shipped items or mail. It does not survive long on most surfaces. The large numbers in Italy and Spain are more likely to more people having it before the stay in place orders started. This has a relatively long incubation time, up to 14 days yet this entire time you can be infecting others and they could take 14 days to show symtoms. That's 28 days till peak even in a complete shutdown.
That doesn't mean we can't take precautions. I'm not bringing the mail into the house but opening it on the porch, throwing all the external parts, packaging, envelopes etc and all junk mail straight into the outside trash containers. Papers then get brought in and set aside for several days. Lifespan on newspaper, cardboard, etc is estimated to be hours, not days.
We do not let anyone into the house, not even our kids. Our last visit with my youngest daughter was Monday evening and even then we didn't allow them in until all of us had been cleared of fever.
You should also wash your hands prior to doing anything after handling something questionable.
I'm minimizing going out but am not really afraid to do so. Everyone here at least has the good sense to stay away from everyone else, kind of weird actually how fast we all adapted to that.
As a Biology major in college, I was "forced" into the Chemical Branch of the US Army but I outsmarted them and joined a Reserve Maintenance Unit which had an Ordnance slot which I wanted and forced their hand. I still wound up being the NBC officer in the unit and having to go to NBC school in addition to my Ordnance training.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ovidio
If the family will be there, yes. Absolutely.
So you see we're hooped then. The protective animal inside us will keep us on duty to the end. We'll be taking care of those dear to us...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CINDERS
:thup: Yesss Sir Ovidio I agree 130%
Seconded ...
---------- Post added at 12:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
browningautorifle
So you see we're hooped then. The protective animal inside us will keep us on duty to the end. We'll be taking care of those dear to us...
And seconded again ....
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I think when this has 'eventually' passed in the Western world, we will be left with a world turned on its head.
The virus will circle round and round like a carousel on the African and Indian continents and central Asia, it will kill Millon's of poor undernourished people and dangerously destabilise large areas, think the Syrian situation on steroids (with nuclear weapons, in the case of India/Pakistan).
Worldwide airline travel simply won't recover for years and it may never be the same again.
It will take a vaccine, deployed worldwide to shut this down,that will take years guys.
The news coming out of the US tonight, that individual states are competing (and bidding against each other) for ventilators and protective equipment is disturbing, massively driving up the price of this critical life saving equipment.
I sincerely hope the federal government bangs heads together and takes control very quickly......
The UK has finally got it's act together, a bit late, but a true national effort is underway on a massive scale, with over half a million members of the public forming a volunteer army to assist in all areas of the coordinated national response.
The NHS is now on a war footing and going 'full tilt' to meet the coming **** storm.
Companies all over the country are now involved in the rapid prototyping and production of ventilators and other medical equipment.
