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Just look through the ads in a 1961 edition of The American Rifleman. You will see 1941 Johnsons for $49, Brit No.4s for $13, S&W 1917s for $25, Colt 1917s for $30, Springfield 03s & 1917 Enfields for $30, Mausers from $17, Jungle Carbines for $25, and even Garands and m1 Carbines for $80.
All above comments are true. I collect Rosses, and feel almost physical pain when I see a Bubba one. But, on the other hand, back in the day, the Rosses were disliked and had a bad reputation, so no one thought the full wood ones wouldever be collectible (even in the 1980's), and I doubt anyone thought twice about cutting them back for deer rifles. The Lee-Enfields were sold already sporterized through Sears and Eatons, and were a cheap, reliable, foolproof deer rifle which shot readily available ammunition.
I remember when I started collecting milsurps in 1984--I was 16 and had just gotten my FAC. That year, or maybe the next year, was the year the Swedish Mausers were released on the market. A local store had them by the bushel, for $49 if memory serves me, with the bayonets being about $10 or $15. A lot of those were sportered up, and now a nice, matching one is between $350 and $400. Full wood Lee-Enfields were scarce as hell. I remember looking for a year or more for a full wood WWI SMLE. Then, s***loads of them were released from various stores (Marstar had beautiful Lithgows you could pick your date of manufacture on I remember) and the Long Branches appeared on the market.
I think every generation has had its kick at the just released milsurp can, but we are the last. All milsurps now are full auto or "evil black rifles" in the eyes of the government, so once all the stuff from the 1950's has been released, there won't be any more. The SKS's, Mosin's and SVT 40's are I think the last of the big releases we'll ever see. From now on, what's available will be what's already available, and will become scarcer. The nice Swedes are drying up, the Yugo SKS's are harder to find in unmessed with condition, and even the WWI/WWII full wood Lee-Enfields are getting higher in price. Wish I could go back in time to talk to me when I was 16 and tell me to buy about 50 select Swedish Mauser rifles and 20 carbines and stash them........they'd be worth a hell of lot more than the savings bonds and RRSP's bought at the same time.
Ed
I used to get all twisted and bent when it came to bubbed military rifles but over time my opinion has become more moderate. When it comes right down to it the reason prices are what they are today is in part thanks to people butchering milsurp rifles. On the other hand back when these things were made there was a genuine need for inexpensive hunting rifles. A good family friend of mine was a WWII vet who used to hunt with a trapdoor springfield. A friend of his commented on how primnative and recoil prone that rifle was so his friend got him a Krag and sporterized it for him. Naturally that ruined the poor Krag but it went on to harvest deer for 50 years- far longer than it ever served in gov't service. Sure it is a shame it was sporterized but had it not happened he'd never have been able to afford the $75 or more that a civilian rifle cost. It may be unpleasant but that rifle had a far more useful life as a civilian tool than it ever did in its short military service.
Recently I have run across a few very well executed sporterized Krags.. One was so nice I even felt compelled to buy it. It occurred to me that there are enough poorly executed examples out there that there might even be a market for well done sporters made from these donors. People buy repro 1895 Winchesters to hunt with- why not hunt with a well done sporterized Krag?
My parents were actually quite opposed to us buying guns when my brother and I first started collecting (they got over it). Our first rifles were out of the local antique shop--mine was a sporterized 1917 Lithgow SMLE and my brother's was a Parks and Rec Ross Mk III. I wish I'd kept the Lithgow. It had been done very simply, but was well balanced, had a nice patina, and was smooth as silk. When I went bear hunting with a friend of mine up in northern SK several years later, I took along a .303 Lee Speed which someone had refinished and shortened the barrel on and also a Ross sporter for another fellow. Still have both rifles, and if I were to take up deer hunting, I think it would be a tossup which one I'd take with me. Both are pre-WWI, solid, reliable, smooth and handle nicely. Hmmm.........
MPi-KMS-72 is right--these old Lee-Enfields, Krags, etc have probably been more useful sporterized than they were during their service lives. Having said that, I still like the original military ones, and like to wonder who carried them, if they survived, what they went through, etc.
Ed
Ed
I visited the Kansas National Guard Armory earlier this week due to a travelling WWI exhibit being in town. There had 3 beautiful Krag rifles displayed. In the display that had one of them in it, it gave an account of the Kansas National Guard being activated and sent down to the Texas/Mexican border during the Pancho Villa troubles. I believe this was in 1915-16 time frame and the Kansas folk had the Krags for this deployment.
Another one of the Krags had been involved in the Philippine insurrection but it was unclear as to what unit or service it was with.
I'm guessing that they did a lot of service with National Guard units.
Some krags were in service longer than others. I'm sure everyone here has seen the pics or troops armed with them in Europe in WWI. Supposedly they never made it to front line units though.
The Krag sporter I really felt compelled to buy was one that was sporterized by M. S. Risley. Most people today probably don't recognize his name but he was a gunsmith from Earlville, NY- he did a lot of work for Harvey Donaldson. To me that alone made it a cool rifle to buy. These guys are long gone but that rifle is, in a way, a tangible link to them. I'll post pics of it next week.
It's possible that a few of them did trade fire with the Huns, as there are a few instances of railway battalions and other rear-but-near units coming under fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPi-KMS-72
I consider sporterization to be a better fate than the alternative...I'm still trying to find more about a report that large numbers of Trapdoor Springfields were actually dumped at sea by the U.S. Army in 1937-38.
Found this one at a local gun show yesterday. It's probably a horible sight for some of you. I just fell in love with it.
That is a nice simple one. Are you going to hunt with it?