Carbines in Vietnam

Herc, you got that right.
A friend that served there gave me a call on New Years eve back in the '80's. It was unusual in that I had moved to Wis. in the late '70's and hadn't had much contact with him except for some weddings or funerals for a few years. He always seemed messed up by his expriance there. Drafted and didn't want to go.
We talked for awhile and then he said good by in a strange way. I found out later that he called all the old guys that night and then took his own life.

Very sad and tragic.....Frank

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Originally Posted by frankderrico

Herc, you got that right.
A friend that served there gave me a call on New Years eve back in the '80's. It was unusual in that I had moved to Wis. in the late '70's and hadn't had much contact with him except for some weddings or funerals for a few years. He always seemed messed up by his expriance there. Drafted and didn't want to go.
We talked for awhile and then he said good by in a strange way. I found out later that he called all the old guys that night and then took his own life.

Very sad and tragic.....Frank

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And people wonder why there are so many homeless vets.

I don't think Herc is just talking about suicide. Though we know there have been many who struggled like that. Guys have and are passing because of complications from wounds, agent orange related diseases are now at 14, plus guilt and mental issues (PTSD).

Each war has it's own concerns. How horrible was WW1 with mustard gas and chlorine. Nasty tissue eaters.

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Originally Posted by frankderrico

Herc, you got that right.
A friend that served there gave me a call on New Years eve back in the '80's. It was unusual in that I had moved to Wis. in the late '70's and hadn't had much contact with him except for some weddings or funerals for a few years. He always seemed messed up by his expriance there. Drafted and didn't want to go.
We talked for awhile and then he said good by in a strange way. I found out later that he called all the old guys that night and then took his own life.

Very sad and tragic.....Frank

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I'm sure others here have probably seen the same documentary about WWI and the shell shock cases where men went completely insane. There was one vet who had just passed away in the 1990's and he shook violently and uncontrollably his entire lifetime.

There are horrors in all wars that vets carry with them their entire lives. The big difference about Vietnam vets and vets from all other U.S. wars is how horrible they were treated after they returned home in the late 60's and 70's. I think it's one of the most despicable and tragic things I've known in my lifetime. Completely and utterly despicable that a whole part of the American society would behave like they did.

It's just unimaginable to me and I was just a kid at that time but remember it vividly. It's only been relatively just recently that Vietnam vets have been treated with the honor they deserved 40 years ago.

I enlisted in 1974. I had thought of doing it earlier, but my older brother, an O-3 who had served in Vietnam two tours, talked me out of it. When I was in MP school at Ft Gordon, they were looking for MP volunteers for Saigon, etc. I was married by then and had a kid already. My wife vetoed it this time. The closet I came was Oakland army Base guarding crap returning, including some long, silver, boxes of remains, non-viewable. Thanks to all you who served. I have my own nightmares from 20+ years of law enforcement, getting shot at, and of stuffing body bags from doing homicide and coroner investigations, and child rape investigations. The things people do to each other (including war) is beyond belief.

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Originally Posted by Harlan

There are horrors in all wars that vets carry with them their entire lives. The big difference about Vietnam vets and vets from all other U.S. wars is how horrible they were treated after they returned home in the late 60's and 70's. I think it's one of the most despicable and tragic things I've known in my lifetime. Completely and utterly despicable that a whole part of the American society would behave like they did.

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I was wounded bad enough to be sent back to the states, but not bad enough to be discharged. After a few weeks in a hospital in Japan and a week at home I had to report to Ft Meade MD and was assigned to riot control around DC. Talk about insult to injury….. that really sucked. But, the whole Vietnam experience made a lot of us feel worthless any way….. that never goes away.

Though it only began to become clear with the fall of the Soviet Union, VN started the demise of their empire. We tried to throw it away with the postwar defense cutbacks, but that movie actor guy saw the inherent weakness in totalitarianism and resumed the pressure. It's harder to see the effects of a holding action, but even if VN was only that, it was an essential element. Maybe it was as Churchill said about the Battle of Britain (paraphrasing): it's not the end, or even the beginning of the end; but it may have been the end of the beginning.

After VN, the USSR never had another major victory. Without our efforts there, it may have taken another generation or more. As most in western Europe don't appreciate what US WWII GIs did for them, many here fail to give credit to our VN vets.

Guess this is my way of saying thanks.

firstflabn, that was well said.....Frank

I was in Vietnam as an infantryman in the years shown above. Platoon Leader the first time and Company Commander the second. I disliked the M16 so sought to carry anything else that I could readily acquire ammo. Weapons included M1 Garand ( taken off of a VC killed in an ambush) and later a US stamped 12 guage shotgun with 00 buckshot.

Nearly all RF and PF forces were issued M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, BAR's and old air cooled .30 cal machine guns. I assume that these were sent by our Government to RVN as Military Aid. Regular RVN units had M16's and M60's.

When RF and PF units were overrun by the VC and NVA all of the weapons would be taken. When American units engaged VC and NVA units we would retake a lot of those old WW2 weapons as well as AKC's/ SKS/CKC Chicom stuff.

and came back alone. No units in/out for most people, You just showed up one day and one day you left. There was a tremendous sense of guilt when you got to go home and your buddies stayed. My big mindscrew was that I was drafted, selected for SF and OCS and refused both, I was sent to a signal battalion because I worked for the phone company when I was drafted. So not only did I get out of the Infantry, but some other poor guy took my slot at OCS and got himself shot up. It has bothered me for 40 years. It was the smart thing to do, but that doesn't help. I was in the 5th Inf Div when the OCS thing came up and sat next to a Captain who had just come back from the Ia Drang fight. He said "I'm going to give you the best piece of advice you will ever hear, Don't do this, if you do, you are going to be an Infantry platoon leader and you are going to get killed" I took his advice.