We have loads of images Peter in the PARA Archive of "Nurdy" hairy arsed PARA's, not the posed attached arms images like above lol if you need them for your periodical, no charge of course ;):)
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We have loads of images Peter in the PARA Archive of "Nurdy" hairy arsed PARA's, not the posed attached arms images like above lol if you need them for your periodical, no charge of course ;):)
I think the lensatic sight went out of use very early in the war, quite a complicated bit of kit (seen one on eBay not that long ago and didn't reach reserve even at £1200).
My explanation of the so-called flare barrel which I mean a rim around the muzzle end which you correctly explained is what I was trying to put in words.
Quite a few variations to the mortar since it was introduced especially the breach and barrel threading, first the threads were fine continuous, then course square continuous then course square and interrupted. The course continuous and interrupted can be used together.
Actual as you say there is quite a lot of info about this mortar, different variations, loads of interesting developments with the rounds it fired especially interesting notes about the tail units (I always thought until recently that the No:4 tail unit seen on most post war rounds was a post war improvement over the steel No :3 tail unit of war time use. I just bought three mint para illum and one white multi star rounds at the war and peace show all with No: 4 tail units marked S&W dated 43, 44 and 45. Just goes to show you learn more as time goes by)
I was, years ago going to write a book about the 2"mortar but there was so much to write it would have been thicker than your Sten gun book you done and that doesn't include the Mk 1 trench 2" mortar of WW 1 that fired the toffee apple bombs.
I think I will have buy myself an anorak.
Forgot to mention that there was a silenced 2"mortar made in in the workshops during the Italian campaign. Caption on back of photograph states that it works. Another one to add to the book.
That I'd have to see...Quote:
Originally Posted by Topfmine
SILENCED mortar............ I'm with you BAR!!!!! Contrary to the photo caption, I think that the basic physics of such a notion would doom it from the start. As a rule of thumb the compression or plenum chamber must be capable of absorbing (I think the figure is...) 20x volumes of expended gas contained within the barrel and then it's got to vent that compressed gas to atmosphere in a controlled way. If you're going to hit 'em with a 2" mortar, they're certainly going to hear that when it comes in several seconds later! I wonder why they didn't just mortar them with a very accurate, tried, tested and well liked 3" mortar from a bit further out
Off track a bit and one for the ammo fiends. Anyone out there know the cut-off/obsoletion date for 2" HE. I never saw any in my service.
I know that the 2" mortar ammo was quite brutal at eroding the ignition chamber/breech part of the barrels and we had to do the examination of Ordnance every 250 EFC's (equivalent full charges) but a smoke or para-illum was only half an EFC as that's all we were using them for. They taught us to do all this barrel/tube measuring palava with the GAUGE, measuring bore and GAUGE testing straightness of bore and all of that stuff but as soon as you got into the big workshops, the gun-fitters used to do it all! Mind you, that was nothing to the complicxated method of testing striker protrusion and the force of blow of the striker. Another real palava!
The gun fitter types used to swear that the FULL square (I seem to recall that the thread was a 10degree modified square that was shock resistant) threaded barrels were considerably stronger than the interrupted barrels as the full threads were in effect an additional ring-of-steel collar just where it was needed. Maybe....., maybe not!
Writing a factual book is a good idea just so long as you avoid mission creep at all costs and stick to the facts and never but NEVER EVER just fill the last half with copies of the training pamphlets!
Peter,
We have the withdrawal date of HE in the archive somewhere.............. Wait Out
I was told by a an ex Reme armouer that we sold our HE stuff to Austrailia and had to buy it back from them for Aden, not sure of the full story. See this link, shows some later 60s 2 inch rounds Finally I Found Some 2 Mortars WWII.
As for the silenced 2" mortar i have a photo of it from the IWM, two guys kneeling beside it, info on back stating that it worked. looked quite bulky for practical use more experimental but its there in black and white, would post the picture but i may infringe IWM copyright, can give details of photo number or PM it. As for a book there is plenty of info at the public records office etc you wouldn't need to refer to field phamflets manuals for info.
---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------
Intresting notes about EFC'S have to make a note about that.
Mmmmmm REME Armourers don't deal with the ammo side of weaponry as a general rule. In fact I made it a hard and fast rule that they (the bomb jockeys or ammo techs) dealt with ammo and we dealt with the weapon and never the twain shall meet! I never went to Aden but it really wasn't 2" mortar country unless it was night time para-illum. PLENTY of action with the 3" though!
Silenced or even moderated, just consider the absolutely HUGE volume of explosive gas that you have to harness, capture and then release. The volume of gas that is going to send a Xlb bomb XX feet in the air and XX feet distance.............. There'd be no problem with the supersoniuc crack of course!!!!!!!
I suspect the REME armourer heared this by the grape vine from a bomb jockey just like other military myths, thats if its a myth (has to be reasearched could be true for all i know) ie throwning a loaded cocked sten gun through a window myth etc. As for weaponary used during Aden has to be looked into. It seems that the 2inch mortar was an imporatant bit of kit, why would they go on to develope the 51mm mortar (they did have HE rounds for the 51)
As with myths again it seems that someone was having a go at trying to silence the 2 inch, whether they suceeded or not i don't know. I would expect a large volume of gas from a 28 bore balistite round would be quite fierce, not sure if they messed about with the cartridge or used para illum or was the device on the mortar used to supress the flash at night rather than noise, again something to look into.
The 2" mortar was important but by the time the much improved 51mm came on stream ( 51mm is 2" by the way.....) there were already better ways of illuminating the night and the 81mm could lay a smoke screen too. The idea of shielding the blast of the mortar firing illum at night would be quite feasible. The last thing an enemy wants at night is to be lit-up. Maybe this is what the photo really was all about.
I will ask the ammo techs at Shrivenham about 2" HE. It might be a case like the Energa and 1.5" signal pistol illuminating rounds where they were declared obsolescent and thereafter the dwindling stockpiles just allowed to find their own way to eventually being obsolete
Interesting thread as my sons old school CCF still has a 2" mortar. As for any smoke or illum, all the Training WO will say is '....that's for me to know and you to think about!'