1888 Commission Rifle

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

BLIND RIBET (Blind hole fitting type) | Fastening Movie - YouTube

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You just posted what is known as a "pop " rivet . It clearly shows the TWO piece rivet and shaft . Since the 88 shows just 1 piece of metal , what you show has nothing to do with it .

---------- Post added at 09:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Here's a photo I found of a brutally removed SMLE charger bridge in my collection:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0101-1.jpg
Note the barely flared end of the rivet pulled from the action body. Would be about invisible...

Generally, on most SMLEs the heads and tails have been linished off so well you can't see the rivets at all. No.4 charger bridge rivets (if installed, i.e. those Fazackerly welded bridges which never had rivets) usually are easier to detect.

All this weighed on my mind so much I plumb forgot to look at my various 1888s with the added guides. Only photos I have are of the non-modded version. MAYBE, if I remember all the folderol we'll have more pictures this week.

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The rivets on Enfields are CLEARLY visible on the inside , SINCE there is a hole clean through the receiver . The Gew-88 is not visible on the inside [ since there is NO hole ] , BUT wait , why is it visible on the top !!! You can see the Enfield rivet head is LARGER than the shaft [ the 88 plug weld is the same size through out ] as that is how a rivet works . I can not wait to your next uninformed attempt to prove the impossible .

For those reading this that would like to know the truth . The problem started with people using second and third hand information , with bad translations . High school level German or internet translators . The ORIGINAL German armour's manual states the 05 guides were rivet welded , the old term for a plug weld as it was first used to replace/ repair rivets on ship boiler repairs . All they got out of that was rivet , and since they did not know how a rivet worked they did not know it could not be a rivet . The 1914 manual states how to tell a 05 from a 14 and names the differences . There is a list . One of which is the guides are electric welded on , not gas . The period German term does not translate well to modern English , so all the translators got out of that was " made from weld" . All the 14's were not destroyed , the book only says that since they do not know what a 14 is and can not find any of the type they made up . The one in the book was bought for a very high price and strangely matches the older wrong description and there are no others like it . ??? In reality the some of the listed 14 features are found on many Turk rifles , if you know what to look for . They got rid of some features as they were readily replaceable to make all the rifles the same , some where close enough it did not matter . So some people may want to learn the truth , some will just want to pass on bad information .

Bob, the rivet head on a GEW 88 commission rifle is roughly two times larger than the shaft. I looked.

Try #2. (Pirated wifi locked up for about thirty minutes!) Also, no heat affected zone which is a HUGE clue with welds. AND, the pin/rivet does go through, but can't get a good photo yet-need a tiny mirror. It's just hard to see after the tail end was cleaned up in the raceway. Also, a Post #6 photo shows a solder ring about the shaft of one of the rivet shanks.

Find me a bare receiver with guides and I'll happily do a cross sectional cut on the milling machine. Easy enough!

I don't disbelieve that some guides may have been welded on. I just have not seen it in person. No books, just visual inspections done over the years.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

need a tiny mirror.

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How's this? Tiny enough? If not I've got a size smaller around here someplace. And it has some magnification to it, IIRC.

Should have some at the workshop. Will round up something in a day or three, if I remember. Used to see stripped actions when I went to gunshows. Would be willing to pay US$50 or so for something to cut up. Riveted looking and or welded or both. Would not be the first time to squander money just out of curiosity.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Would be willing to pay US$50 or so for something to cut up.

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Have access to an x-ray machine? If it'll show internal flaws in welds it should be equally useful in solving this puzzle.

Could a magnaflux test reveal the composition of the attachment method? I would think a round pin/rivet would have a very well defined definition between original metal and the fastener, whereas a weld might look a bit more "organic". It's a speculation, someone with experience using that process might be better able to comment if it would yield conclusions.

The Commission rifle ear rivets have very crisp, well defined borders which can easily be seen on the exterior of the ears. I agree that a weld would have less clearly defined borders.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

Have access to an x-ray machine? If it'll show internal flaws in welds it should be equally useful in solving this puzzle.

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No, not that wouldn't cost as much or more. Same with magnaflux. The free stuff like that is not firearms friendly!