Early 32 Scope?

So if they had made 0000's of surplus scopes and H&H were only churning out 800 T's/Mth that means the other players building the T's must have been working at light speed I lifted this off another site on the purported No.s of T's produced if anyone can put a finger on it. On might assume due to the machining and work going into producing a T they would have kept exacting records of serials rather than just a standard No.4.

Ammoland,

A sniper variation of the Lee Enfield No 4 Rifle was used in World War Two, that used the No. 32 3.5x power scope and had a wooden cheekpiece. This model was adopted in 1942 and it was known as the No. 4 Mk 1 T. The earliest sniper rifles were converted from the Trials No. 4 Enfields at the Royal Small Arms Enfield Factory. Later that year Holland and Holland was contracted to convert select No. 4 infantry rifles to No. 4 Mk 1 T sniper rifles. British and Savage made rifles were selected for conversion. Somewhere between 23,177 and 26,442 rifles were converted by Holland and Holland. Long Branch made a small number of sniper rifles late in World War Two, in addition to those that were converted by Holland and Holland.

Rob, look again at the timeline:

8 July '44, they enquired on 4,000 "instruments" to be delivered by April '45.

August '44 they are disappointed to learn that April '45 is not realistic.

I suspect they wanted scopes to replace in service/"wasted" MkI scopes and have some available for "new production" rifles.

By August 1944, Mk3 production was in place, and probably ended the need for extra scopes.

And ETO was going better than expected - campaign planners were working on the Pacific campaign.

Yes that's what I wonder about as well: did they ramp up production at H&H? Presumably that is where the work was done, (for example, the S51 codes seems to be pretty much universal on butts unless changed later?) so we assume they must have done so in 1944/45/46 as PERHAPS other tasks were completed or scaled back?

At 185 rifles a month, that is about 2220 a year, unless another shift was added? One milling machine set up to machine the bearing surfaces on the pads should do nine rifles a shift easily. The more time consuming part would be the stripping, finishing, re-assembling, fitting up and zeroing etc. And that might explain the "T Less Telescope" rifles: fitting of pads got ahead of fitting and zeroing sights and scopes - would it be too much to conjecture that the first could be done on a night shift but the zeroing could not and a backlog of converted rifles built up which were never dealt with before the contracts were ended/cancelled? Or was the supply of Mk3 scopes from UK makers not expected to be sufficient, but then was found to be after all, when declining needs were taken into account such as the aborted invasion of Japan?

I'm not sure where those 23,000 to 26,000 numbers come from, if not from just calculations of No32 production?

Looking at the timelines, such as they can be discerned, the mid-44 order would probably be in anticipation of the invasion of Japan.

But what about this "deadline" they were referring to in late 1943? Where and why would there be one if they were carrying on with MkI production in the UK well into 1944, and only introducing the Mk3 scope in late 1944? Where's the deadline in all that?

There would be some wastage in No4.(T)s of course, but not that much I suspect. For example I would bet a large sum that the 2 of 4 experimental REL scoped rifles that were supposedly "lost through enemy action" in Europe were simply pinched and reported as lost. For example the RCOC Sgt. shown in Without Warning with a sporterized No.4(T) slung over his shoulder: definitely not on his scale of issue or something Armourer Sergeants need to wander about with, however much some may have wanted to!

Then there's the strange and apparently spurious offer to order 6000 No.32 sights (presumably Mk3) from REL floated sometime in very late 1944 or the first half of 1945...?

And this odd incident: "we would have bought them if only they could have been made in time..." A canard or an insurance policy on No32 Mk3 production?

Quote:

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Concurrently, at War Office request, the Ministry of Supply initiated inquiries for production information based on a requirement for 4000 3-1/2X instruments (134), disappointed to learn that no deliveries could be made before April 1945 (135), whereas
they had understood, on a basis of unofficial information (136) given without reference to the proper authorities (137), that deliveries could be completed by April 1945 (135). On account of the length of time required to start production the War Office order was not forthcoming...

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Very peculiar.