UK spec Straight pull Carbine

Hmm, thanks for all the input guys. Variations in for ".30 Carbine"

I will make enquiries tomorrow, having seen the example posted, I really want one!

I have a small bore and carbine/ pistol caliber range only 2 miles from my house, it would be very nice to do some milsurp shooting close to home, instead of a 40 mile trip to my full bore range.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

There is a curious juxtaposition regarding the legality of these rifles.

If the conversion is carried out abroad, then it's imported and accepted as Sec1.

If you do precisely the same thing here, then it's regarded as a conversion of a Sec5 firearm and retaines it's Sec5 designation...

A certain UK RFD went to prison for this very thing, among other charges.

The madness of the UK system!

I would personally prefer an example as original and complete as possible.

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John, that's an interesting development on what I had understood the accepted position in the UK to be. On the basis that a conversion "ex-UK" is acceptable, then presumably a straight pull Bren (operating from a closed bolt maybe?) shouldn't be a problem if it was a manufactured outside the UK and then imported as Section 1?

It's a nice thought but I wouldn't want to be the one to "test the waters"!

Kev

Absolutely Kev,
As I understand it, this has been cleared and being sold, so it appears to offer some interesting possiblities.

The trick appears to revolve around importing a firearm into Britain as single shot, Sec1 complient firearm.

Maybe,that being the case,it's regarded as acceptable, EU rules (of some sort) overriding UK law?

The thing is, in the EU it's not legal for just anyone to commercially do the conversion from self-loading to manual, the manufacturer has to have a licence. The carbines being transferred from Italy are converted by a licenced manufacturer, have been classified as Category C firearms (essential) and have CIP proof marks and are then transferred to the UK as section 1 under an Art 11 transfer licence. Consequently, regardless of dissenting opinion, these carbines are 100% UK legal. In fact, I know of two carbines (without clear CIP marks) that have been through the London proof house without any problems or questions.

EU firearms law is by Directive rather than Regulation and a Directive must be enacted into the Member States domestic law, so there is no question of any EU rules overriding UK law.

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Originally Posted by oakrisearms

The thing is, in the EU it's not legal for just anyone to commercially do the conversion from self-loading to manual, the manufacturer has to have a licence. The carbines being transferred from Italy are converted by a licenced manufacturer, have been classified as Category C firearms (essential) and have CIP proof marks and are then transferred to the UK as section 1 under an Art 11 transfer licence. Consequently, regardless of dissenting opinion, these carbines are 100% UK legal. In fact, I know of two carbines (without clear CIP marks) that have been through the London proof house without any problems or questions.

EU firearms law is by Directive rather than Regulation and a Directive must be enacted into the Member States domestic law, so there is no question of any EU rules overriding UK law.

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That's good to hear. I have seen one of the M1 Garands that you sell and I was very impressed with the quality. Do you have any plans to bring in carbines?

Ditto, for the Italian Garands, very nice rifles indeed, beautifully manufactured and put together.

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Originally Posted by oakrisearms

The thing is, in the EU it's not legal for just anyone to commercially do the conversion from self-loading to manual, the manufacturer has to have a licence. The carbines being transferred from Italy are converted by a licenced manufacturer, have been classified as Category C firearms (essential) and have CIP proof marks and are then transferred to the UK as section 1 under an Art 11 transfer licence. Consequently, regardless of dissenting opinion, these carbines are 100% UK legal. In fact, I know of two carbines (without clear CIP marks) that have been through the London proof house without any problems or questions.

EU firearms law is by Directive rather than Regulation and a Directive must be enacted into the Member States domestic law, so there is no question of any EU rules overriding UK law.

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Thanks for your clarification Stuart, that certainly answers the question.

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Originally Posted by Roy W

That's good to hear. I have seen one of the M1 Garands that you sell and I was very impressed with the quality. Do you have any plans to bring in carbines?

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The Carbines are already here, with more Garands available from December. As well as the Galil ARM, Zastava M70 2AB and Israeli surplus M14s. I working to add the MAS 49/56, SVT40 and SAR 80 to my inventory. If I can find the them!

Unfortunately, only certain platforms lend themselves to straight pull or better put "manual loading rifle" or MLR. The restriction is the type of gas system, so piston or direct impingement works but blow-back won't. And sadly, there will never be an MLR Bren unless it is built with completely new parts from the ground up. Section 5(1)(a) firearms will always be prohibited.

With Italian makers providing some material to the UK, is there a straight pull BM-59 being offered in England? Or would that once again, require newly manufactured, unported barrels be produced and fitted. That adds a lot of expense, over just welding the gas port shut.

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Originally Posted by AmEngRifles

With Italian makers providing some material to the UK, is there a straight pull BM-59 being offered in England? Or would that once again, require newly manufactured, unported barrels be produced and fitted. That adds a lot of expense, over just welding the gas port shut.

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BM59 MLRs are available in the UK! I've noticed that this is a rifle is really quite popular in the States, but for some reason very few shooters have even heard of the rifle here in the UK! Frankly, and I may catch some flak for this, but I think that compared to the M14, the BM59 is a far superior firearm.

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Originally Posted by Roy W

Apparently they originate at Luxdeftec. They have some interesting stuff on their site. LuxDefTec S.A.

This is the proof mark, presumably Luxembourg?

Attachment 103668

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No, these carbines don't come from LuxDefTec and don't come from Luxembourg at all. The one's Dan Valmont are selling are Italian military surplus, been in storage for decades with absolutely pristine barrels. Italian proof. Luxembourg don't have a proofhouse, all done in Belgium. While LDT's site is still up, I don't think that they are in business any more. They certainly don't do business with anyone in the UK anymore!