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I think the color is a combination of gray zinc based park and oxidized oil on the park. It could even be linseed from years of slopping stocks with it. Oil does oxidize to a yellowish color and you put yellow over gray I believe it does get a distinct green tinge. Just my opinion.
It has been done using the same solutions, or as close to the same as possible using available period data and MILSTD procedures used today. After some trial and error the result was an olive green tint to the zinc phosphate finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired Retired
Dang, wandered over to CSP for the first time in awhile. Half the topics had negative or smart-@ssed posts. Ouch! In one topic, a person asked what hardbacks were worth and got his head bit off and was generally made fun of. If there are none for sale anywhere, how would a person know without asking? Sheesh!
This is 'it' as far as I'm concerned. The guns were not 'green' when new. They do not turn 'green' if left in the pristine state, like one I saw in the Quartermaster Museum at Ft. Lee before 'they', in their infinite wisdom, removed all real guns from the displays in the interests of 'safety'. That carbine was medium to dark grey with the correct blued parts, etc. It was quite eye-opening seeing that brand-new, sixty year-old carbine - non-stained or oiled stock, 'fresh' Parkerizing, sharp markings and all. The perception of 'green' is actually the combination of the grey phosphate and amber/brown oxidized oil, including linseed oil as noted above. Oxidized oil puts a permanent stain on/in the highly-receptive phosphate finish. If you change your own engine oil, you may have noticed how the stain can permeate even baked-on glossy paint on engines, filters and tools/accessories. Speaking of used engine oil, if you want to 'color' a fresh re-Park, boil it in used oil or just soak it for a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizzouboy
I'll also have to defer to Charlie's Zinc Chromate, because I really don't know if that was used or if it would turn Park'g 'green'. If it was used, it would seem to have the effect of turning 'green' with no oil being applied, which contradicts what I have seen - not just the one 'new' carbine but as mentioned already the new-old-stock Park'd parts being grey, not 'green' when opened. However, I have not studied the question and cannot say either way, except I know for certain the oil staining effect is real.
It's not zinc chromate it is chromic acid. The chromic acid rinse is used as a sealer to provide additional corrosion resistance. Look up MILSTD MIL-P-16232F and look at paragraph 3.2.5.
In an in-house newsletter published by Inland during the war there is a picture of a factory worker dunking assembled barreled receivers into a tank of sealer. The sealer would have been the chromic acid solution. Too long of an exposure time or too high of a concentrate of H2CrO4 imparts the green tint to the phosphate coating. Nothing spectacular just simple chemistry at work.
My thoughts were based on the use of Zinc Chromate (tinted) in early WWII production as a corrosion resistant finish.
Zinc Chromate Green added as a binder and tint to the Chromic Acid bath.
JMT,
Charlie
Myself, I'm a member over there, post very little because frankly I'm not sure I really have the expertise to comment on too much, I don't have the years of experience in surplus firearms I'm sure many there and here have.
I'm more active here because of some here who I know truly are near experts or as close as anyone I know are going to get on military surplus firearms. And I enjoy the discussions without the constant bickering and trying to prove who has the bigger "hangy-down" thing you see in other internet forums on guns.
Truly what sold me on here being the premier site for military firearms is the fact Bill Ricca is not only a featured sponsor here but a contributor in most discussions. Bill is to me a guru of the type firearms we collect and enjoy.
All of you guys are good folks, I've never seen this place turn ugly, and that's a rarity on line these days. My thanks to all, from the moderators to the members who strive to keep this forum a civil place to discuss military surplus arms!
I think you have nailed it. About a year ago I used some rubbing alcohol on my A4 and the brownish-greenish grunge came right off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizzouboy
I aquired this particular rifle in the late 60's directly through a contact at Interarms in Alexandria, VA. It had been service with the Thai's and more than likely never spent any time in cosmoline since it bypassed the usual DCM/CMP disposal route. Also it has no rebuild marks or indications of a trip back to a depot or arsenal.
Regards,
Jim