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Ah well! If you just put in your earplugs and carry on shooting, you can shut out that sort of thing.
Patrick
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---------- Post added at 07:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------
[QUOTE=jmoore;175348]What would the Ottomans be using for an official date? Islamic dating back then? Secularization came rather later to Turkey- did they start a new calendar? QUOTE]
They used the Islamic calender until 1925, having made an interim change to the reckoning of the months (from Greek to Gregorian according to Lapin. P.22) in 1917. If anyone wants tgo know the exact date to the day of a Turkish document pre-1925 it must be a troublesome business to work it out.
Patrick
:wave:
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Actually, there is a formula for converting the Islamic Calender to the Latin one, and it can be found in Lapin's book on that same page. In terms of knowing exactly when a particular rifle was made, all one has to do is translate a little bit and plug it in the formula. For those without the book, the equation is as follows:
say you had a date of 1277 AH (Islamic Date)
Then you would do the following:
1277 x .03 = 38.31 Round this number and subtract from the original date: 1277 - 38 = 1239
Now simply add 622 (you will always add this number here; it is constant) 1239+622 which equals 1861 AD (or CE, depending on your school of thought)
Since I did pull that from a text (though it is probably on the interwebs somewhere) I want to formally credit Terence W. Lapin and his excellent book "Mauser Military Rifles Markings" in this case, 2nd Edition. It never misses a gun show and is certainly a worth while resource both concise and handy. It has helped me identify more than one mauser, I can tell you that!
Back to the Turks though...
That system will help sort out the dates on older rifles but as pointed out by Chadwick, after 1925, they switched to the Latin Calender. Additionally, it is impossible (as far as I know) to work out the original manufacture date of the converted arms, prime examples being the Gew98's that have been seen in Turkish service with all markings scrubbed and fully rebuilt. Still, I have found that all Turkish Rifles are fairly well dated so long as the markings have survived.
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Yes - and no!
You are both correct - and incorrect with reference to what I wrote!
Correct, in that Lapin provides the formula for the year.
But I wrote that "if anyone wants to know the exact date to the day of a Turkish document pre-1925 it must be a troublesome business to work it out."
And with the shift in the Turkish version of the Islamic calendar from Greek* to Gregorian day reckoning, I stick by that statement!
Patrick
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*Look up "Rumi Calendar" when you have a quiet moment - you need the quiet to follow the details!
