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Being involved with WW2 living history as well I have to say the Bren tripod is the most useless piece of kit issued for the bren. They are plentiful on the surplus market and most groups have one. Having been an air defence gunner in a previous life I found them unstable and a menace when trying to track an aircraft with. As to fixed line firing the bren isn't in the same league as things like the GPMG or MG42
Thats a bit harsh comparing a light machine gun to two medium machine guns,which I believe also have buffered tripods........apples and oranges ? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyper
ATB KG
Another point KG and DPyper is that pretty well as soon as it got into service the ant-aircraft facility in the tripod was declared obsolescent. I forget the date but it was in 1940 sometime. So it's pretty well academic criticising the facility now.
The Bren did what it did best as the section machine gun. Light, portable, well respected, hard hitting, reasonably accurate, simple, reliable..... and on and on. Mere words don't do it justice
Peter couln't agree morepity they didn't convert them to 5.56 instead of the LSW
My dad was with the AIF 9th Div in Tobruk and told a story about a guy (Pte Maurice JENKINS) who was awarded an MM by manning a tripod mounted Bren who took on attacking Stukas. Dad was his loader and when the digger fired at the approaching planes they honed in on them. Like everybody else dad went for cover but the gunner stood his ground and kept firing with rounds bouncing all around him. The gunner survived, got his medal and much abuse from his fellow diggers for attracting the attention of attacking aircraft.
BRK
Picked up a Russian DT machine gun drum. Going to attempt to convert it for use on a Bren. It does load, and function with .303.....similar enough in shape and length to the original 7.62x54r..... if it doesn't work, only out about 30 bucks. Nice winter project.
DPyper. Comparison with the MG42 is not fair. The MG42 needed the huge Lafiette mount plus optics. For AA use the separate Drayfuss mount was used. Large tool kit ,spare barrel cases and cleaning gear. Plus a huge ammount of ammo. Each gun needed a team of eight to serve it. The Brengun only needs one or two soldiers to serve it!
One of the many reasons the Brengun did not remain in service in 5.56mm was the RSAF could not supply parts after 1986. The decision had already been made by Bae and the Tory government to finish mass produced gun making in the UK. RSAF in Nottingham only worked for about five years producing the POS SA80 and LSW. Bae also owned H&K. H&K had a managemaent buy out. The SA80 is now repaired in Germany. In the trials for a new LMG ,the FN Minimi was better than the LSW.The trails were fixed so the LSW won. Several years later the Minimi is now the standard issue LMG! The requirement for the SA80 and LSW was to pierce the then standard issue Bundeswere steel helmet at 300m. Not a proper design requirement. Most retired soldiers prefer the large calibre rounds .303,7.62mm,30-06 or 7.92mm depending on which army paid the wages!
SA80 repaired in Germany............... where did you get that from Lester? You'd better not tell me and Skippy that. We're knee deep in them! It had a major half-life mechanical upgrade in Germany I agree but it's repaired here in the UK. And while it's not my favourite bit of kit but it's only fair to mention that about 90% of the modifications that made the gun A2 were designed and developed at Shrivenham. H&K just put the whole package together.
The Bren didn't remain in service in 5.56 because the gas reserves required to operate the system were just inadequate. IT probably wouldn't even re-cock for the second round!
You have simplified the LSW rather, but it's not an LMG nor was it ever one. You can put a different butt on a rifle and it's still a rifle. You can put a bipod on a rifle and it's still a rifle......, same as a bigger magazine. You can put a heavy barrel on a rifle and all you've got now is a HEAVY rifle. As an accurate rifle, is was good. But as a machine gun, it was shi.......... er........, rubbish.
Next time you are passing, come and see us and all of the guns on the trial. The real winner might suprise you..........
I think Peter maybe getting excited about the AK and PK again.
Didn't DHH make a 5.56x45 conversion. I'm sure Kev posted an advert for one.
As a British tax payer and owner of a copy of "The Last Enfield" and "The Guns of Dagenham". The British Government absolutely "did for" mass produced gun manufacturing in the UK. It is a national scandle! The RSAF trained a lot of skilled people. Their skills were welcomed in local factories and boosted the British economy. £400 odd pounds to get the SA80 modified was a waste of money. We could have bought a better gun from another manufacturer! I take it from your comment the Lewis gun in 7.62mm is the contender?
I am down to do a firearms and explosives course at Shrivenham. Will PM you for a formal invitation for a look see. Many thanks. Lester