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Hi All,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm new to M1 carbines and think this is the place to learn. Found m1carbinesinc.com first, which i also am very thankful for. I recently found an Alpine in a paratrooper stock that will be delivered soon. Had been looking at Auto Ordnance and Inlands, but now i think they are the same. Found a Auto Ordance casting picture to go along with Sleeplessnashadow Inland casting picture. looks like the A & R are almost touching in both of them.
I can assure you the Bolt is not cast-they are run from solid stock on CNC machines-the #696 carbine that was reviewed was a very early gun, Inland has been shipping M1's since about mid April and has since made several "in Line "changes and improvements to the parts and gun since- I have shot 1000's of rounds thru these new M1's and have had some ammo issues ( with armscor ammo )
I would advise the reviewer to contact the company and have the issues corrected -as said earlier 1 gun is not always a good basis to judge the rest of the line
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am the Owner / President of Inland Manufacturing who is producing the M1 Carbine being discussed on this thread. There are many in-accurate and speculative comments that have been made on the internet and more specifically within this forum, I will be very happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability. I appreciate the information gained from such a technical and enthusiastic audience as Milsurps, this information will assist us in the future to produce the very best product possible.
Inland Mfg. is a private entity and Veteran / US Citizen owned and operated and we have no affiliation with any other firearms company as speculated on a previous post. MKS Supply, also located in Dayton, is the master distributor for the entire Inland line and is also the distributor of other firearms and firearm related products. Inland did not purchase Auto-Ordinance, however many of the components used are sourced from the same suppliers used by Auto-Ordinance and manufactured to our specifications. 100% of all components for the Inland M1 Carbine and 1911 are new production and sourced from the United States, this is a practice that we strive to continue. With any new venture, there will always be bumps in the road, we have had our share and learn from them, we take great pride in the product that we build and the great customer relations that we have already developed. I am very pleased to say that warranty issues are dealt with aggressively and expediently, with the average turnaround in 3-5 days. This is possible in part due to the fact that we have had less than 1% which is substantially lower than what is usually found in the firearms industry.
For the readers of this forum, if you have any Inland products that develop a problem, please contact us immediately and give us the opportunity to correct the issue, this will assist us in identifying a potential "Manufacturing" issue that we are unaware of.
Thank you for this opportunity to share our information and to learn from your firearms experiences!
Ron Norton
President
Inland Manufacturing LLC
Hi Ron,
Thanks for giving us the opportunity to talk to you in person. Glad to hear that you and Auto Ordnance are not the same. But you must agree at the thousand dollar price tag, the average Joe would be very cautious of putting money down on something that is made from the same parts as another rifle that has a suspect track record. What can you tell us about Inland that makes you a better choice than the others? Can you give us any info as to the heat treating of the cast components and how you test your vendor supplied product for this.
Thanks.
Wastelander.
Ron,
Welcome to the forum, and thank you for jumping in. I laud your efforts to keep the M1 Carbine alive, and hope you do redouble your commitment to quality Control. The magazine catch one member had on his, as well as the broken extractor (on the same weapon IIRC), and the warped receiver, poor stock finish, and soft bolt on another members carbine are not good advertisement for your company. The members of this board will be your best resource for success. Please take heed of their critiques (not criticisms) and move forward and improve.
My father carried the M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima, and I carried one for many years as a LEO trunk weapon. I would love nothing better than to have you succeed and produce quality M1 Carbines that my grandchildren will be able to buy new in the future.
BTW, my own observation as a former military and police armorer, is that you need better/stronger ejector springs. I am only basing this on the videos that show the case barely leaving the open breech area. The military found that the ejector/ejector springs were CRITICAL to proper function.
Anyway, with that said, I do wish you the best of luck. I recommend Remington factory 110 FMJ as your standard ammo for testing. It is about the most consistent in my 30+ years experience with the M1 Carbine, and also closest to USGI military ammo.
You guys are awake and working while I'm trying to sleep. Keep the noise down :). You beat me to the keyboard.
I spoke with Ron Norton this morning before heading off to sleep. He clarified some things that need clarifying and corrected. And 3 Gun Charlie is someone I'd also like to chat with.
I am an investigator doing an investigation. Speculation is relevant and needed during an investigation but needs to be kept in perspective as only speculation. I overstepped that rule when I commented that Auto-Ordnance is now Inland. My apologies, it should have been presented as speculation. Time sorts out speculation from the facts. One problem with putting speculation on a public forum, even if it's clearly indicated as speculation, is the human tendency by all of us to forget its only speculation.
I think I made it clear regarding the speculation of Chiappa's involvement with Inland Manufacturing. The U.S. Patent & Trademark database indicates two "live" trademarks for Inland Manufacturing. Applications for both were submitted the same day. One is simply the name Inland Manufacturing and registered to Ron Norton dba Inland Manufacturing. this trademark has not been issued a registration number.
The second trademark is the new Inland logo used on their website and in their materials. This one received a registration number on June 30, 2015 and is registered to Chiappa Firearms at the Third St address Chiappa has used as the USA HQ.
In the conversation with Ron this morning he indicated he left Chiappa over a year ago and took the Inland trademark with him. He related the property on Third Street is his property and now the location of Inland Manufacturing. A look at the Chiappa website shows it now indicates a different address in Dayton.
I went into this detail as this is what I do, I investigate. Whatever facts turn up one way or another are what they are. There is no guarantee my work is without errors or omissions due to ignorance or being human. But I try to be accurate and information from the manufacturers and workers can help to clarify and/or correct things like this.
As Ron knows from his time at Chiappa, I don't take sides or play favorites. I work for me and do not profit from it. I take no freebies and want nothing other than what everyone else gets as that is the focus of my work. You won't even find my full name on my websites. What I do is important, not who I am.
I'm open to information and learning and welcome it from everyone. My websites are not gun reviews. They are historical and documentary in nature. Only if there is a safety issue will I get into what the issue is. I share information for free in every direction, not just one.
I started this thread looking for information from other owners. That request still stands. I'll be communicating with Ron, and hopefully Charlie. This is a public forum and they are welcome to comment on the photos I posted and anything else I've written here. It helps if they choose to do so.
Last thing. My main focus at the moment is the work on USCarbines.com. A web page on the Inland carbines will not be available on my website until I develop enough information to make it meaningful then have the time to put it together. Time is the one asset I'm always short of. Money is a non-issue because I have none and don't put much value in it other than necessities. Like buying and evaluating carbines, sharing info and pics on the websites, then selling it to get another one. This is my retirement.
Jim
USCarbines.com
M1CarbinesInc.com
BavarianM1Carbines.com
Thank you all for the warm welcome that I have received on this forum. Please excuse me in advance if I am a little slow in responding to forum requests, I will do my best to answer all questions, I will be out of the office for several days, we are invading Normandy from the banks of Lake Erie.....oops, sorry Generals, I hope that was not suppose to be a secret! We will be at the Ohio D-Day re-enactment at Conneaut, Ohio, if any forum members are in the area, come on over, I am sure the allies could use as much support as possible!
I also want to thank the forum members, some that we have already met through our customer service and I want to thank them for choosing Inland products. I hope to see as many as possible on D-Day (this year it is August 21 & 22, Conneaut, Ohio
Hi Ron,
In rereading my last posting I wish to explain my questions. First, I asked you about “What can you tell us about Inland that makes you a better choice than the others?” I’m wondering about your market advantage. The thing that makes you shine above others. For example, I have purchased three Henry rifles in the past. Anthony Imperato who bought the rights to the Henry name has worked hard on having great customer service. Conversely, I have also recently purchased a Marlin liberty Training rifle (Appleseed), which when I got it had to be returned as the front sights were in the 11:00 position. Marlin did finally give me a replacement rifle, but only after many months and a poor attempt by one of their gun shops to try to fix it. This has led to a bad experience and the replacement sits unfired with me looking to resell it.
I want your company to succeed. I enjoy seeing a rifle with no plastic on it (that is how they are supposed to be). The only way I currently can evaluate your rifles before a purchase is by the internet as I do not know of anyone having them in stock. That being said, looking at your website, the pictures that are available are few. I have found in the past that Gunbroker at times will have multiple close-ups of a rifle that someone is selling. I see various features in your rifle that appear to be of higher quality that the others. I like the deeply engraved serial numbers. The front barrel band is of higher quality than Auto Ordnance’s. The sights are better quality also. These are all upgrades to the original M1 carbine that the government required back in the day.
As to my question, “Can you give us any info as to the heat treating of the cast components and how you test your vendor supplied product for this?” This is something that most of us just have to guess at. I work in manufacturing, and even understand a bit of the work involved. You’re explaining and taking the mystery out of this for us could go a long way in building confidence.
I am seriously considering buying one of your M1 carbines (after I sell the Marlin). I know there are USGI rifles out there, but they are for collectors now. Quality and Function are what I will be interested in. Your rifle will too become a collector in time based on the good reputation you make for it.
Thanks,
Wastelander
3GunCharlie,Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 gun charlie
My serial is 574 which is older that the one you said is very early. Should I be concerned and return it for updates. I have noticed the bolt stick, mentioned in post #1 but no other problems after running about 400 rounds through.
Dave
Dave,
Here's a few things to check.
Folks, please remember this is only 1 carbine and should not be used to judge them all. I started this thread looking for others who would share info about theirs so we can see if was a one off, or something more. So far only one other person has contacted me. Hope there will be more.
Bolt: 1) look at the right bolt lug and make sure it doesn't have any damage on the front or rear edges. Also check the rear of the bolt where the hammer hits for metal deformation. Slight finish wear is normal. Look for metal deformation.
Attachment 64809 Attachment 64810
2) Don't have a pic of it but the ejector plunger spring in mine was 2 coils shorter than GI. Depth of the spring hole looked correct. Wasn't a problem but should be 2 coils longer.
Receiver: 1) Look down inside the rear of the receiver where the bolt moves back and forth. I thought these were casting mold marks but gunsmith whose a retired metallurgist and has a lifetime of experience examined them and advised these are casting defects caused by something referred to as a "Cold Shut". Check to make sure these are not interfering with the movement of the bolt and check to make sure the horizontal edges of the sides and bottom of the receiver are straight. See the next comment.
Attachment 64811 Attachment 64819 Attachment 64820
Attachment 64814
2) Using a straight edge, check the sides of the receiver for what looks like warps. Metallurgist advised this was probably caused during the heat treatment process. On mine the trigger housing pin holes don't line up with the receiver. Whoever assembled it forced the pin in. It took a punch and hammer to get it out and put it back in. NOT good. The lifespan of the receiver lug will be diminished significantly and on other carbine receivers it has snapped off eventually. The rear mag wall of the trigger housing abuts the receiver and it's sometimes difficult to get the magazine to seat securely due to the slightly diminished vertical space.
Attachment 64812
Attachment 64813
3) Check the surface on the right side of the receiver the slides sits and moves on. In the pic below there's a slight dip with a slight rise to the right just before the opening for the bolt lug. The slide removed the finish on top of the rise.
Attachment 64818
Slide: Check the cam cut that engages the right bolt lug. Look for metal deformation. Finish wear is normal. This slide hasn't deteriorated to unsafe but since it was the first range trip and 500-600 rounds this is something I'd monitor closely. IF the damage increases with use it could cause the slide to disengage the bolt during firing. I suspect this MAY have something to do with the uneven surface on the right side of the receiver the slide rides on. The bolt lug would be right about where the metal deformation in the camcut is when the handle of the slide passes over this uneven surface on the receiver.
Attachment 64815
Trigger Housing Group: 1) Check the lower hole in the rear of the trigger housing. Mine has vertical edges on the sides. This blocks the use of a trigger spring tool and requires some work to get the trigger spring through the rear of the hole and mounted in the trigger.
Attachment 64816
2) Trigger spring on the right is GI. On the left is in my Inland. Initially it retained it's shape and spring tension. After several disassemblies and reassemblies the safety stuck in the middle instead of on or off. Disassembled again and found the trigger spring no longer applied tension to the rear of the trigger, allowing the sear spring to push the trigger partially into the path of the safety. But the issue was the trigger spring is no longer a spring.
Attachment 64817
3) Moniter the face of the hammer and the sear for deformed metal. My hammer has a little, not enough to be a concern but enough that it needs to be monitored during further use. My sear is fine so far. I mention it only because of past experience with cast sears having a limited lifespan. Like the cast ejectors, the forces these two parts encounter tends to limit their lifespan. My ejector was machined from forged steel and hardened. The finish doesn't match the bolt. I suspect this was the fix for the extractor that failed on the other Inland shown in this thread.
Also check your mag catch and compare to the pic of the other Inland posted here. Mine is fine.
Ron at Inland is aware of this one. It's on it's way to Inland. I always hope a manufacturer can put together a good carbine at a decent price for all to enjoy. It's a real challenge for their company to survive while trying to feed their families. Fulton Armory and Classic Carbines only make carbines when they have an order. Not certain but think James River Armory does the same with their Rock-Ola replica carbines. Auto Ordnance has been struggling with their carbines for a number of years.
Jim