Singer cruciform rare?

sorry to take so long getting back - had to look up the source of my comment - didnt want to be making it without backup , and i didnt want ya-all thinking i made it up , while not ever saying 'always or never' when it comes to anything enfield or commonwealth in general im comfortable with this ,

im siting data from a reference book - "british and commonwealth bayonets" by skennerton and richardson , p215 ,

singer manufacturing co , produced the no4 mkI , clydebank , scotland , marked SMC , SM then N67 on their mkII bayonets ,

my mkI is a singer marked 'SMC' , my mkII is a savage

What about the "77 Z" on the back of mine? I'm curious.

Any one have any thoughts on the scabbards? My scabbard has No4 Mk1 5,286 (Serial No.?) WD arrow and a small V marked on the alloy throat piece.

I have 2 different WW2 editions of WHB Smiths small-arms books, My earlier edition, describing the original No4Mk1 bayonet, stated it was designed after US civil war bayonets, and was adopted to lighten the weight of the rifle.

The old leatherbbound records at Warminster (and a little later Textbook of Small Arms?) don't actually say exactly, but during the 30's trials, they say it's based (loosley) on the features of the French bayonet. Presumably this means a French cruciform bayonet of the era. Any ideas

That is correct Peter, the quadrangular blade was copied from the French M1886 bayonet, nick-named "Rosalie" by the French infantrymen, and was considered as strong as a full round blade but lighter. Also, it had the advantage of less reflected light due to the faceted surface. The No.4 MkI bayonet did not have "Rosalie's" tendency to snap in use due to it's short blade. The American spike bayonets from that for the M1795 musket through that used on the M1873 Trapdoor rifle, were direct copies of French bayonets, including their faceted triangular blades.

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Originally Posted by limpetmine

What about the "77 Z" on the back of mine? I'm curious.

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Limpetmine, sorry I missed this one. The 77 Z is a viewers mark.

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

I am waiting for fake No.5's to appear next! I wouldnt be suprised!

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They are already here...made in India.

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Originally Posted by Pattern14

They are already here...made in India.

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Hi P.14, Already been over this on another thread! Cheers.

Not exactly No4 cruciform but the spike variety again.

I saw recently an original drop forging of a No4 Mk2 one-piece bayonet, as drop forged, still in the white (but tarnished now.....), awaiting the machining. I understand from the cast shape that it was a Savage forging. The steel quality was as tough as old boots and was clearly an original. It was interesting from the engineering point of view because there was still a LOT of finishing to do and it's tough old stuff!

Has anyone out there in forum land seen or got one of these unfinished Mk2's?