yes, can confirm that is the BC mark in on my stock
so any theories on what the dark spots in my stock are?
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yes, can confirm that is the BC mark in on my stock
so any theories on what the dark spots in my stock are?
It's called mineral streaking. Your stock is made from Baltic Birch wood 'a.k.a' Russian Birch 'a.k.a.' Arctic Birch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnitzelmahn
There's some oil stains mixed in too and probably some remains of the older finish that wasn't completely sanded off.
what was the original finish on polodsk rifles?
Same as Tula. Some sort of Lacquer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnitzelmahn
This recently came up over on gunboards and the author of the recent book on wartime Mosins confirmed from russian documents that the original finish was mordant applied to the wood so that pigment would stick to the birch (notorious for not staining well), then some type of reddish stain, and finally 3 coats of nitro-cellulose lacquer. There was a short period during the height of the war where other finishes were tried and used, such as some type of tree-based tar, which did not perform well, and for a while an oil finished was briefly used. Then they went back to lacquer. The tinted shellac stuff is post-war.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarnell19
Yes! Alex, myself and RyanE have been discussing this for years and have been trying to tell people. Now we have the proof. Thanks for sharing the info here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claven2
You guys have missed the crucial issue of: where does shellac come from? Answer: India
When did the first treaty with the soviet Union and India originate? Answer: 1953
TRADE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS [1953] INTSer 16
You will note that item # 7 is shellac from India, which is where most of the worlds supply of shellac comes from: (India and Thailand)
As such it is very unlikely that the soviets used shellac for finish in a big way much before 1954, as it is not a item that comes from the Soviet Union, but were literally full of the stuff sometime after December of 1953.
One last bit of evidence that prior to 1953 there was not a lot of shellac in the soviet union: the account of Kalashnikov's first AK (made circa 1946) says when the first model was complete, it was finished with blued metal and lacquer on the wood.
That is a massive bit of detective work, and explains a lot, thank you for providing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
One thing to consider is that today you cannot get the type of nitro used prior to 1974 when VOC-Nitro was banned in most of the world. Nitro lacquer and high quality de-waxed shellac are indistinguishable once dried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentryduty
The "nitro" sold today is actually acrylic lacquer mixed with 5% nitro - which is the maximum legally allowable by EPA. The older stuff gave people all sorts of cancers when the solvents off-gassed and were breathed in - part of the reason why life expectancy for a male in the 1940's was in the mid-40's. That and lack of fall arrest, smoking, farming accidents using machinery with no safeguards, automobiles with no safety features, legal drinking and driving, and a lack "do not place over head" warnings on plastic bags.
If one was to restore a mosin stock today and make it look as-new, a few layers of a high quality pre-mixed amber shellac over good reddish stain will look identical to the pre-war finish on Mosins. The issue today is that all the shellacs we have access to are high gloss, so you'd want to knock the finish back by hand rubbing it with some talc, or lightly buffing with steel wool to render the finish satin.
Frederick303's detective work is certainly appreciated, and that shellac is a pretty poor finish. I hold that it was applied to protect the stocks from absorbing the cosmoline the rifles were packed in. Some Canadian members may recall a batch of M44's collectors source brought in from Albania, the stocks were quite "punk" where the grease was allowed to be absorbed.
I have a refurbished 1943 91/30 PU sniper with 3 distinctly different colours of shellac. The standard tint on most of the stock, with darker brown shellac applied (with a brush i might add) at a later date, past the finger groove and on the hand guard it is dark burgundy, and it does not adhere well, it has been "repaired" in one place, and it comes off to reveal a "golden" oil finish like Mdarnell's original 91/30. Ive been really tempted to strip it and oil it, this is a good thread but it still hasn't helped me make up my mind.