Enfield bolt bodies for sale on e-bay UK FAC holders BEWARE.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

PM sent Beery........... but for clarity, where in this quote (thread 46, para 2) does it say you need a certificate to OWN one. 'OWN' doesn't mean, indicate or imply possession. I could OWN one held on my brothers FAC!!!!!!!!!

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And to think that all I wanted to do when I started this thread was to warn the average FAC holder of the potential pitfalls of buying / acquiring / owning section1 parts without the correct authority.
A simple rule of thumb is this:- If a part of a firearm requires to be deactivated in some way to comply with the deact regs then it's a section 1 part, bolt bodies, bolt heads, firing pins, barrels & actions all have to be modified to make them comply and all are section 1 parts.
I am an RFD and I along with every other RFD that I have spoken to we will NOT sell any section 1 parts to an FAC holder without the correct paperwork regardless of what has been said in parts of this thread.
It is simply not worth loosing a trading license just to try and prove a point in court that could go either way even with previous precedent being set, it would also be a very expensive exercise that I and an awful lot of small trades could not afford.
I come back to the first point that I made is the ownership / possession of a gash section 1 part worth the potential hassle that it may cause when in most cases the part will probably just sit in the spares box just in case.
Oh and don't forget that if you do happen to change your bolt body / bolt head ect it should go to the proof house to be reproofed before you sell the rifle as failing to do so will open another can of worms with the proof house regulations..................

Hey, don't get me wrong on this thread at all. What it does is illustrate that by having a bit of old case law handy some of the rules cannot be easily enforced but can easily be countered. These legal eagles equate the myriad and convoluted hotch-potch of mix and match firearms laws as similar to the driving laws where some laws, rules and orders seem to countermand another......... You know....., you can own a car without a licence! It's like driving your motor bike without a helmet and using the religeous exemptions get-out-of-jail clause - that you are a Sikh. It's an exemption clause, not a turban wearing clause........

Like my sister used to say about her office rules. They never spoke Religeon, Politics - and Law - if you could help it!

But it does make lively, if a tad boring discussion

This thread has been quite interesting and just highlights how hard it is to write Fire Arms Law and for it then to make sense.

We've talked about Enfield Bolts being section 1 and how you can hold one for a shot gun etc. Then I was thinking that a Delisle is section 5 ad it has a modified Enfield bolt so it just gets silly.

Then I was reading about ownership and possession which got me thinking about a guy I used to know who had a live SA80 rifle with no sect 5 auth as it was held in Switzerland (I think)( I know it's outside the UK). When I moved from Cumbria to Lincolnshire I got into trouble for not telling the Chief Constable of Lincs that I had moved to the area in a reasonable time, even though my rifles and shotguns remained in Cumbria. So is it the person who has to be licensed regardless of where the firearm is held?

As a Customs Officer who specialised in Firearms Law I still struggled to keep up with some of the more arcane aspects of it. It did not help that changes to the law were scattered through various amendments / EU regulations / Annual Home Office Panic Measures bills such as the Violent Crime Reduction Act etc. If you want a really good laugh have a look at the section on replica firearms and when a replica is not a replica. Having said all that if you are a shooter in the U.K. I strongly suggest that you download the latest version of the 'Guidance to Police' on Firearms Law. It is worth a read and some of the revisions especially in relation to Pistols held under Sec 7.3 are in fact common sense, very rare these days. I found it useful as by quoting it I was once again allowed to homeload pistol ammunition. Here is the link https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...gLawJune14.pdf

Or just move to NZ!

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

When I moved from Cumbria to Lincolnshire I got into trouble for not telling the Chief Constable of Lincs that I had moved to the area in a reasonable time, even though my rifles and shotguns remained in Cumbria. So is it the person who has to be licensed regardless of where the firearm is held?

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Needless to say, once again the police got it wrong.

I quote: "The holder of this certificate must, without undue delay, inform the Chief Officer of Police by whom this certificate was granted of any change of permanent address."

So you by law have to inform Cumbria. You are not obliged to tell Lincolnshire. Your FAC is valid all over Great Britain, not just where it was issued.

Some years ago, when I moved from one constabulary to another, I duly informed to one who granted my FAC. I soon got a call from the new constabulary telling me that I had get an FAC from them. I pointed out to them that if they wanted to issue me a new FAC, that was up to them but in law, I didn't need one. This went to and fro for months at goodness knows what cost to the tax payers and made not one jot of difference to public safety.

BTW I hop that wherever you have left your guns, they are not in the "possession" of someone without the necessary authority.

Good old "Interpretation" rears its head again......................now lets start on road traffic law, what was this thread about again??:lol:

The biggest problem with many a Police Officer here in Blighty is that they tend to very easily forget that their job is not to "Interpret" the law but to "Enforce" the law.

Which is why it can be good to quote to them from the Guidance to Police as that can shut them up quite promptly. Mentioning Legal Insurance with the NRA can be quite good as well.

Guidance to Police.......now there's a laugh in itself, all 43 Forces interpret the Firearms Law differently as it is, caused by it being badly written in the first place.
Those tasked with writing the legislation should have took council from all bodies concerned including the NRA then perhaps we could all blame ourselves if we no longer liked it, and not the poor sods trying to make it work.
It can be said about a lot of knee jerk written stuff though unfortunately:banghead: