sten gun

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

I don't know who modified them this way, I guess some foreign operator for safe vehicle transport, seems the most logical reason to me.

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John, I had one of these a couple of years back let it go also!

A THIN blued steel bad goes around the reciever & through those two 'Top Hat' mounts. It had a 'L' shaped tab for finger & thumb gripping. To enable the band to rotated slightly.
The band was NOT the same size as the entire circumference of the Reciever. it was approx. 1 Inch shorter. This enabled it to be 'fed' through the two top hat mounting points. & also under the Trig Mech cover. The top hat mounts were BRAZED onto the receiver, not welded.

I heard it was an INDIAN Army Mod, though I cannot confirm this. It seems an overly complicated 'solution' when you see the, 'Simplicity Itself'. British Mod of a replacement bolt handle, & a hole in the Reciever!.....:confused:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

I heard it was an INDIAN Army Mod, though I cannot confirm this. It seems an overly complicated 'solution' when you see the, 'Simplicity Itself'. British Mod of a replacement bolt handle, & a hole in the Reciever!.....:confused:

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If it’s an Indian Army mod, why does it also have the British Mk5 Safety Cocking Handle mod?

When did the British Mk5 Safety Cocking Handle mod come out, 1944? Maybe the other safety mod preceded the Mk5 Safety Cocking Handle mod and was later abandoned?

Evening Vincent, the mk5 cocking handle was probably added at some point after this mod was added, or when it was a pile of deactivated mk3 sten parts in bins!

It's a strange old mod, but I would say Mike's guess is about on the money, Indian, or perhaps French.

I don’t know about India. They don’t strike me as being overly concerned about safety. The mod also looks like a trap for mud and dirt. I can’t see the Indians doing something like that…. but the French!

As far as I'm aware the Indian Mk2 and 3 guns got the British mk5 safety as they were still under British control until 1947. I don't see why they would change ideas in 47 and most in service guns had probably already converted by then.

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Originally Posted by Vincent

I don’t know about India. They don’t strike me as being overly concerned about safety. The mod also looks like a trap for mud and dirt. I can’t see the Indians doing something like that…. but the French!

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Well, I would agree Vince, a decidedly French type mod!

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Originally Posted by Vincent

I don’t know about India. They don’t strike me as being overly concerned about safety. The mod also looks like a trap for mud and dirt. I can’t see the Indians doing something like that…. but the French!

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DONT Mention anything FRENCH!!!!!!! :madsmile: Peter would be able to tell you the exact date of the introduction. For the through the receiver side, cocking handle Mod. It is all in His book on the Sten!.......;)

It MIGHT well be the case, the Cocking handle mod that pushed through. MAY have been done at a later stage of this guns life perhaps? & the overly complicated 'Band Safety', was removed. & the hole in the receiver drilled & the new pattern handle fitted. I have seen a few done like this myself.
The two 'Top Hat' mounts would be left in place I guess. As heat would damage the blued finish & leave some unsightly mess on the receiver externally. As there mounts were Brazed on, rather than welded.

Oh yes, as a parallel point of interest. I have (As my others on here) Seen MANY Stens, that have had NO cocking handle modifications done whatsoever! I would presume these went to overseas Aid. To Foreign Armies, as in UK Service. This mod would have been implemented to our own in Service guns. As part of the Workshops Work Programe's. If however, the guns were going to be withdrawn due to the Implimentation of the then new L2A1 Sterling SMG. Then obviously this work was unnessacary & would incur unwarranted manpower hours at Workshop Level. The Stens would be returned to Ordanance Depots to be 'Cast' from Service.

Just my own thoughts on this. It WOULD be interesting to know though, where this modification actually originated from? :cheers:

The cocking handle modification was a mid war class 'A' modification in the UK Military. Immediate. Introduced as a UK Military modification in April '44 but incorporated into series/new production in Jan '44. We had loads of UK Military Stens and all had been modified. Indeed, I even had to retro modify one by tig welding over the hole etc and making good just so we had a representative example in the archive. There was even a little sequel to that event too*. ALL Mk 5 guns and late Mk2 guns were modified from new

The cocking handle safety modification is, in my humble opinion, a classic example of K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. Simplicity itself, designed by a mechanical arch genius that made the Sten into one of the safest SMG's (or at least as safe) as the others of the era. The breech block is locked forwards or rearwards. And he didn't get even 1 penny for his efforts

* Off at a tangent, so look away now if you are one who keeps telling me to stick to the point...... A group of Officers from the newly Free Poland Army were looking around the Workshops at Aldershot when they saw this Sten gun plus another couple, hanging from wires after having gone through the workshop phosphating /paint programme. One of them looked aghast, looked over to Maj Keith Axxxxx (also a Polish speaker) who was shepherding them around and asked '.....are you still using these.....?'. A quick explanation quickly explained the situation.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

And he didn't get even 1 penny for his efforts

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Now days there's a financial reward for coming up with safety or service suggestions...

GEMS, don't ask me what it stands for but this is the MODs scheme for new ideas, and by ideas I mean a way of saving money. If it's a fantastic idea but cost money....they have no interest.