Not often seen

My friend in Florida got a few of these cartridges from a French gun collector some years ago and gave me this example. I was able to find out from another French collector, who was able to identify this cartridge.

It is the Mle 1895 2nd type spherical lead ball with a reduced load for use at 15 meters. The headstamp is UZ 3 18, it must have been manufactured for some time. I was unable to find any other reference or details. In almost twenty years now, I have never seen another.Attachment 120652Attachment 120653Attachment 120654

Some other gear that came along from a WWII armourer I used to visit him at his house come gunsmith shop, he had scads of awesome gear sadly all broken up by his useless son.
Both are signal cartridges one aluminium the other paper,

Aluminium one ~ Schermuly, SIG CART ILLUMINATING 26.5MM & 1 IN LOT 617 DEC 1981
(Never twigged the serial of this cartridge is 617 Guy Gibson's Dam Busters Sqdn)

Paper one ~ I.M.I 4/66 ILLUM (Line out O.W.15.A)

Were these hand fired from a flare pistol or mounted on a vehicle discharger!

RCS they remind me of what Elmer Keith once talked about Gallery Cartridges very reduced load so they could safely be fired inside a shed or barn with full sized rifles Elmer used that type of load in his pistols to practice indoors with his handguns.
Just enough power he said with his handgun load to punch the round ball level with the top of the linoleum, I have read somewhere about these cartridges for the rifles in one of my cartridges and ballistic books but goodness knows which one!

303 MkVII for scale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Paper one ~ I.M.I 4/66 ILLUM (Line out O.W.15.A)

Were these hand fired from a flare pistol or mounted on a vehicle discharger!

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I have one twice that length that is intended for handheld flare gun use...so yes, hand held. Not many shoulder fired and the same ones were used in mounted launchers. Some cases the flare gun had mounting lugs for the vehicle.

I have used a chamber insert in both 30-06 and 303 cal rifles, which will allow you to shoot 32 ACP or 32 S&W short (also have one for 32 S&W long in 30-06). These are quite accurate at around 20 feet. My photos show the targetsAttachment 120835Attachment 120836Attachment 120837Attachment 120838

Many years ago, I met Elmer Keith at one of the NRA Conventions. He was talking to a small group about his first rifle or I should say carbine which was a Springfield Model 1873 45-70 carbine. He was really a good talker to listen too. His face was scarred really bad from a fire many years ago

I have a 1969 guns & ammo yearly one where Elmer talks about big game hunting and cartridges and some of his early escapades when taken and imprisoned by an unruly person they Elmer ended up shooting him with a manufactured cartridge, *(38 in a 45)* the gunfights he saw where he said that size of the pistols cartridge did matter and more quite the stories.
I have a few of his books but I think the jewel of them is "Hell I Was There", if you know anything about Elmer he was awfully lucky to survive the arson hotel fire, he was badly burned around the hands I think the right one received the worst of it so much so the tendons shrunk due to the burning and formed his hand into a claw.
When told it could not be fixed and would be like that for good that was not what he wanted to hear, so at home Elmer had his father bend all of his fingers backwards until things broke and popped to which at great length through sheer grit and working that hand Elmer got pretty much full use out of it again.

If you have not got a copy of that book get one it is about an American Legend a Montana cowboy of which there will never be another, I rank him up there with James Corbett in the daring do's they did in their lives which would make a normal person among us shrink away into the shadows.

* The story Elmer told was he was captive with another lad and somewhere some how they found a 45 LC Colt handgun they had 1 x 38 cartridge so they wrapped the cartridge in paper until the hull could just be driven into one chamber of the cylinder.
When the chance appeared in Elmers words roughly "When it was fired the slug wobbled its way down the barrel and did its job"*

Developed during the early part of WW1 by the French by using their black powder 11x59r Gras rifle cartridge into a smokeless machine gun cartridge to be used against German observation balloons. With the larger diameter bullet incendiary and tracer could be used on the German balloons. The first machine gun to use this cartridge was the French Model 1914 Hotchkiss machine gun.

Later Colt converted some 7,62x54 cal Vickers (cancelled order from Russia) machine guns to use the new cartridge now called the Colt 11.43 mm (11x59r). Some 1200 of the 11mm Vickers having reached France by 1918. Some American flyers used two Vickers 11mm guns in the Nieuport 28 while some SPAD 13's used one in 303 cal and the other in 11mm cal. A special metal link was also designed (very rare to find). After the Great War, the 11mm Vickers
was obsolete. My photos show the 8mm Lebel and 11mm Vickers, note the Western 1917 head stamp.Attachment 120872Attachment 120873

Be plenty of those here that would have fired one of these during their service.
84mm Carl Gustav illumination round which was part of a job lot I picked up a while ago from a member here.
Its in pretty good nik with the chute still attached as is the case pretty surprised at just how light the case is.
Anyhoow! just another piece in the ordnance collection that has found a good home here.
303 MKVII for scale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

84mm Carl Gustav illumination round

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To me, that's a very rare round. Something we taught the troops during 84 classes but had nothing to show them. I don't even know of them being used by our guys in Afghanistan. Nice piece...

I have 3 Boys A/T rifle rounds in the collection 1 prac round and couple of others one I have mounted in a cartridge board I did up years ago.

The prac round is RG 43 WII ~ Radwaygreen 1943 WII I gather denotes A/P projectile

Other one is K 42 WII ~ Kynoch 1942 as above for the WII

The Boys projectile is .55" just a tad bigger than the 50 cal.
So they are about but you do not see many of them now days think the going rate is about $70/$80 per other round the practice one may be worth a bit more due to amount produced.

A story I read somewhere = In WWII there was a place where the GI's were on 1 island and the Japanese on another island.
Rumour has it they were out of effective S/A fire and took great pleasure teasing the GI's by swimming in the ocean flaunting it.
So for some reason they had a .55 Boys but no ammo for it, however the armourers rigged up a 50 cal browning barrel to it and sighted it in.

The next time the Japanese soldiers flaunted we can bathe here the G.I's with their bubba'd Boys knocked a couple of the swimmers off they never swam there again.
Don't know how true it was but it would have been funny the ol mate swimming then getting smacked with a 750 grain 50 cal projectile.....

As usual 303 MkVII for scale.

(I only expanded the nomenclature for those just learning about head stamps and factories.)

Good story. 30-06 bullet will go as far as a Boys' will I believe.