New No.4 Mk1 owner... what can you tell me about my rifle (pics)

Just acquired a No.4 Mk1 deac from a dealer here in the UK (for my father, actually). The dealer advertised the rifle as being made in 1942 at the Fazakerley factory and being all original except the bolt. Also, he stated the woodwork was beech, but later said it might be ash. On receiving the rifle, there is no date stamp. I contacted the dealer asking him how he established it was a 1942 and he said he got it from the serial number, but he hasn't responded to me asking him how he did this. So, what can you experts out there tell me from the pics I took below...


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../9Bx2vNJ-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m2N2pIq-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../0z3n1xB-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../svUd1Ij-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IC9cvL0-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../c37a75D-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Jk1f2M1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../29Cx45o-1.jpg

It has a Canadian Army ownership mark and a mix of wartime and post war woodwork from what I can see in your pics.

It's a total mix and match with a copper plated ex DP bolt to match.

[QUOTE=ianuk1975;309819]Just acquired a No.4 Mk1 deac from a dealer here in the UK (for my father, actually). The dealer advertised the rifle as being made in 1942 at the Fazakerley factory and being all original except the bolt. Also, he stated the woodwork was beech, but later said it might be ash. On receiving the rifle, there is no date stamp. I contacted the dealer asking him how he established it was a 1942 and he said he got it from the serial number, but he hasn't responded to me asking him how he did this. So, what can you experts out there tell me from the pics I took below...


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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../svUd1Ij-1.jpg
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QUOTE]

Those round inspection markings indicate to me that your rifle started life as a Maltby No4MkI

As others have said, I see a mix of markings.

Thanks folks, not good news then.

Here's the original ad from which I purchased the gun (4th rifle down)...

http://www.real-gun.com/lee-enfield.html

If I'm to complain to the dealer, I need specifics. It would be much appreciated if you guys could point out specific markings that indicate the gun is not as described. Also, is there any way the dealer could claim the gun was manufactured in 1942 as he claimed?

As per the OP's original question, and as per Ian D. Skennerton,-

"No.4 and No.5 rifle serial numbers can readily identify manufacturers. British No.4 rifles have five numbers, usually after one or two letter prefixes. The same letter prefix(es) were used by Maltby, Fazakerley & BSA Shirley, A to Z then AA, AB to AZ, then BA to BZ, CA to CZ &c. Maltby rifle serial numbers commence with a number '1', Fazakerley with a '2' and Shirley with a '3', e.g. 1xxxx for Maltby, 2xxxx for Fazakerley and for Shirley, 3xxxx, after the letter prefix. Late Shirley numbers then supposedly ran A4000 to A7999 and with PS prefixes at the very end of production. Post-war Fazakerley No.4 rifles had PF letter prefixes."

So going by your your rifle's serial number it was made by Fazakerley and 1942 sounds about right. The rifle was then at some point put through a post war rebuild which explains the Suncote finish and as was common, the use of serviceable mixed parts from stock to complete the rebuild without thought of making it all matching for later civilian collectors of these rifles, just like Garands were.

It also saw service as was previously noted with the Canadian military. It should be a good collector piece and I would not be too worried about the mix of parts as it shows that it had a useful life which is why it required a rebuild and also most certain war use.

As Lee Enfield says, the circular markings are Maltby although I have seen similar marks on Maltby refurb of a BSA rifle. Maybe some additional photos of any marks on the back action flats or barrel (under the woodwork) might help with a definitive origin.

Ridolpho

The serial number is a new one in my opinion, it would appear the wrist has been scrubbed and a new number added.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ianuk1975

Thanks folks, not good news then.

Here's the original ad from which I purchased the gun (4th rifle down)...

Deactivated Lee-Enfield No.4 | De-activated Guns | no.4

If I'm to complain to the dealer, I need specifics. It would be much appreciated if you guys could point out specific markings that indicate the gun is not as described. Also, is there any way the dealer could claim the gun was manufactured in 1942 as he claimed?

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Whilst it may not be exactly what you thought it was, does it really matter, it is an assembly of an assortment of parts, but at the end of the day, it will not be fired, it is a wall-hanger, deactivated facsimile of a No4 rifle.

Unless you are an Enfiled 'anorak' you wouldn't know it wasn't 'all correct'

You could buy another de-act tommorrow and you will not get anything any better - generally if a rifle is good quality, or a rare, model or collectable for any reason it will be sold as a 'live' firearm. Second or 3rd quality rifles that would otherwise be scrapped go for De-acts