low serial numbers

I have theoption on a springfield 1903 that is in the low number range but is rather beautiful to look at in photos. The thing is, the price is really nice, but the barrel is dated september 42.
so i know the gun survived use in ww1 and ww2.

I have the option on a rock island low number. its rather nice, it passes the fmj in the muzzle test for erosion. but the price isnt bad eitehr.

Im not interested in a pure collector. I want to use it. i really just have teh ability to get lots of remington 150 grain core lokt at the store.

and i was interested in loading up the new barnes solid copper hollow point flatnose in it.

What are the safety risks/ According to the hatcher notes, if they were bad they should have ruptured by now.

How low is low? There's bags of posts here with tons of fact printed for one to read. With all the info here, I personally don't care what you do. I like the low number guns because they look more like art than a war horse. Go ahead, shoot it. But when the receiver shatters like glass, make sure you come back and tell us.

That is if it's actually as low as you think...no number mentioned...

rock island is a 250-260,000 range. springfield is a 357,000 range

Im more into downloading it to 30-30 or 30-40 krag levels.

I would spend that money on a decent High Number. Not too much more and an everyday shooter. I like the 1.4-1.5 million serial range. Very high quality production and nice shooting rifles.

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Originally Posted by Bezoar

rock island is a 250-260,000 range. springfield is a 357,000 range

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But what is the number of the rifle you intend, against our advise...to purchase?

The "cutoff" between high/low numbered M1903s is:

Springfield - about 800,000

Rock Island: 285,507

I have a 5 digit serial number that was rebarreled in 1919 that I run about 20 rounds a year through. BUT.......I only shoot reduced loads through it. There is no way I would shoot factory ammo through it. You have to make your own choice about whether to shoot or not shoot.

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Originally Posted by Bezoar

What are the safety risks/ According to the hatcher notes, if they were bad they should have ruptured by now.

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Hatcher also said that they didn't start having trouble until the demands of increased wartime production brought many new less skilled workers into the workforce. Is the serial number in question pre-war production, or wartime?
The Marine Corps also did not remove low numbered 03's from service until after WW2.
With all that said, it makes no sense to take the chance and shoot a low numbered 03 with full power ammo. If you feel you must, shoot it with cast bullets in the 20K psi range to enjoy it and get a high numbered gun for full power ammo.

The story I heard relating to the heat treat process at the was that the old timers knew by the color when it was cooked enough. It is said that they knew when on any given day or weather. The trouble came when they brought the new people in. So the armory went to a double heat treat process. Another contributing tale and it maybe just that but the ammunition was so bad that they took to greasing the cartridges so they would go in the bore easier. Even a pure tenderfoot should know that grease and rifle chambers are like gas and fire. Time frame for that was supposedly early to mid 20's. When the quality of the cartridges improve they pretty much stopped blowing up. It's up to you good folks to put it in the Ripley file or not.:cheers:

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Originally Posted by TDH

The story I heard relating to the heat treat process at the was that the old timers knew by the color when it was cooked enough. It is said that they knew when on any given day or weather. The trouble came when they brought the new people in. So the armory went to a double heat treat process. Another contributing tale and it maybe just that but the ammunition was so bad that they took to greasing the cartridges so they would go in the bore easier. Even a pure tenderfoot should know that grease and rifle chambers are like gas and fire. Time frame for that was supposedly early to mid 20's. When the quality of the cartridges improve they pretty much stopped blowing up. It's up to you good folks to put it in the Ripley file or not.:cheers:

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You essentially have the pertinent facts, just a bit jumbled.
The early 1903's were made from the same steel (Type C Ordnance Steel) using the same production methods used for the Krag. Worker skill was used to estimate temperature, and ambient light was a factor, but it was in the forge shop that the overheating and subsequent crystallization of the receiver blanks originated, not heat treatment. After pyrometers were installed to control the forging process, the double heat treat was instituted to make the receivers as strong as possible. This is a very interesting study in itself as the receivers were packed in cast iron boxes with animal bones and leather scraps which gave off carbon that the steel absorbed to form a hard case on the metal. Today, this appears to border on witchcraft, but it was the standard of the day. A double heat treated 1903 receiver is so hard you can't file it. It should be noted that testing at Springfield to intentionally burst a double heat treat receiver failed, even with a case full of Bullseye and the bullet seated backwards. A contributing factor was Springfield Armory was buying barrel blanks from contractors during the war and one in particular, was heating the bars to be able to bump up the breech end to make it large enough rather than use a larger bar of steel. Same issue, crystallized the grain structure of the steel. Atlas was the contractor if memory serves.

The greasing you mentioned was a practice competitors used to reduce bullet fouling in the bore with cupro-nickle plated bullets. Little tins of proprietary formula greases were sold for the purpose. As one can imagine, you cannot grease the bullet and chamber the cartridge without the grease getting all over the chamber area, specifically, the neck, where it would not allow the neck to expand and release the bullet, causing an over pressure. Competitors were warned to stop this practice, but you know there's always someone who knows better...
There were numerous ammunition companies that sprang up during the war and their ammunition was substandard. (McBride mentions this ammo reeked havoc with the machine guns and they always hoarded ammo made by the well establish long time ammo companies for MG use.) Many of the failures were attributed to soft case heads which ruptured and released the high pressure gas which caused the receiver to fail. One documented case involved the firing of a 8mm Mauser cartridge. (I wonder who the overachiever was that was able to close the bolt on that one!)



So in the end, the wartime manufacture single heat treat receivers and bolts are the ones to definitely make wall hangers out of. The pre-war receivers SHOULD be as safe with Krag pressure levels as the Krags are, but being there are plenty of high number rifles for shooting, it makes little sense to risk eyes and fingers to the calibrated eyeball of the forge operator at Springfield or Rock Island 100 years ago. Just my 2 cents.