Enfield No. 4 Mk1 question

I have a dilemma concerning my enfield that I would like to pose to everyone. I want to compete in CMP games with it. I measured the throat with my hornady gauge and I would have very little of the bullet left in the case when touching the lands, not to mention being able to fit inside the magazine. I know this doesn't bode well for accuracy from this rifle. My dilemma is, if I have the barrel set back to tighten up the chamber then I have an issue with the stock enterfering with the front sight since the it would now be too long. What would you suggest I do? Thanks for any suggestions!

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Originally Posted by gmh67

What would you suggest I do?

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Why not just change the barrel? They can be had in as new or new condition.

How does it shoot? Is it accurate anough as is?

Have you tried shooting it as your O/P you've measured the throat wear and deduced it may not be accurate, granted if is starts skew wiff in the barrel then it wont be accurate.
I'd check the muzzle wear as well then do up some loads to mil spec same COAL as a MKVII round and go from there it may shoot well you never know!
I load all mine the same FLS'ed, TTL, Fed 210 Match primer medium neck crimp with Seirra 174SMK's for the 4 303's I used in comps.

Postscript ~ I also used Hornady's 150Gn SPFB .312" with good results same as above they flew really well good up to around the 4-500M mark anymore and your stretching the barrel. (See pic how I used to seat them for my rifles + bit heavier crimp.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gmh67

I have a dilemma concerning my enfield that I would like to pose to everyone. I want to compete in CMP games with it. I measured the throat with my hornady gauge and I would have very little of the bullet left in the case when touching the lands, not to mention being able to fit inside the magazine. I know this doesn't bode well for accuracy from this rifle. My dilemma is, if I have the barrel set back to tighten up the chamber then I have an issue with the stock enterfering with the front sight since the it would now be too long. What would you suggest I do? Thanks for any suggestions!

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Rifles that have spent their time firing cordite propelled bullets suffer a very different wear pattern to those that use NC (Nitrolcellulose)
If you have such a rifle then shooting BT bullets is going to make the situation worse and the only solution is to use open-flat-based bullets (as the original MkVII is) or rebarrel.

He is a copy of the Armourers instructions of the time.

'Regulations For Army Ordnance Services', Vol.3, Pam.11A (1949) comments:-

APPENDIX 15

USE OF .303-IN CORDITE AND N.C. AMMUNITION

1. The action of Cordite propellant in the barrel of a .303-in. weapon is quite different from that of N.C. propellant.
Cordite gives a rapid build-up of pressure with great heat, leading to pitting and erosion of the chamber end of the barrel.
N.C., however, gives a more gradual build-up of pressure with less heat, and this in turn gives uniformity of barrel wear from chamber to muzzle, the amount of pitting and erosion being greatly reduced.

2. With Cordite propellant, set-up of the bullet is most pronounced and even when the chamber end of the barrel is well worn, the muzzle end still has sufficient rifling left to impart the necessary spin. As the wear advances up the barrel, so the accuracy of the weapon is progressively reduced.
With an N.C. propellant, set-up of the bullet is slow and by no means so pronounced, due to the more gradual building up of pressure. The barrel retains its original accuracy until wear reaches a critical stage, when a sudden falling off in accuracy occurs.

3. It can be seen by comparison with the effects of barrel wear that to use N.C. ammunition in a barrel which has fired Cordite will give serious inaccuracy in flight, whereas the use of Cordite ammunition in a barrel which has fired N.C. gives good accuracy, but serious changed the wear pattern of the barrel.
In the first case, i.e. a weapon which has fired Cordite ammunition the barrel will be eroded and fissured in the first few inches up from the chamber, the part in which obturation should occur. The poor set-up of the bullet, in the N.C. cartridge is not sufficient to give good gas sealing in such a barrel and the bullet does not, therefore, receive the maximum impulse. The resultant loss in velocity and instability due to lack of spin lead to a high degree of inaccuracy.
In the second case, Cordite ammunition fired from a barrel which shows uniformity of wear from firing N.C. ammunition, has an adequate reserve of set-up that ensures full gas sealing, with satisfactory velocity and spin. Unless the barrel wear is in a advanced stage due to firing a large number of N.C. rounds, there will be no immediate appreciable loss in accuracy. Furthermore, the decline in accuracy for Cordite ammunition will follow the normal gradual fall-off experience in weapons firing Cordite alone, as the wear at C of R progresses.

4. Trials have proved that even if only a few rounds of Cordite ammunition are fired from an "N.C." barrel, the ensuing accuracy life when N.C. is subsequently fired is reduced considerably. The occasional and restricted use of N.C. in a "Cordite" barrel will however, have little effect on its ensuing accuracy life for Cordite, although naturally the fire of N.C. will not be very accurate.

5. The effect of wear of barrels can be determined by firing shots through a paper screen at 100 yards. If, on examination of the screen, all shot holes are not perfectly round, then the barrel is no longer fit for use.
The danger lies in the fact that bullets fired erratically from badly worn barrels may overcome their instability in flight and take up a steady flight in the direction in which they happen to be pointing, with short-ranging and disastrous results if used for overhead fire. Except under these conditions of long-range firing there is no risk involved, though in normal range firing inaccurate fire will result.

6. The following instructions regarding the use of .303-in ammunition have been issued to users and are governed by stocks and types of ammunition and weapons in current use:-

(a) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in M.G. Bns.

(i)Mk.8z only will be used for overhead firing.
(ii) Mixed belts, i.e. Ball, Tracer, A.P., etc., will NOT be used.
(iii) Any barrel which has fired Cordite ammunition will NOT be used for N.C.; barrels will be stamped “7” on the trunnion block and returned to R.A.O.C. through normal channels.
(iv) Barrel life for N.C. will be assessed by unit armourers using the appropriate gauges.

(b) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in A.F.V.s.

Here the overhead fire problem is not considered; the range is usually less than is the case with ground M.G.s. tracer ammunition is required as an aid to fire control, and prolonged fire programmes are not envisaged. Special mixed belts of Mk.8z and Tracer are provided in boxes clearly marked “For use in A.F.V.s only”. The reduced life of the barrels is accepted.

(c) Light M.G.s.

Cordite ammunition normally will be used. N.C. ammunition, however, gives a relatively small flash at night and if the Bren is being used for a special purpose, e.g., on a patrol, its use is permitted.

(d) Rifles.

N.C. ammunition will not be used in rifles except in such circumstances as quoted in para. “(c)”
above, if necessity should arise.

7. Belt packed S.A.A. for M.G.s is packed in boxes which are clearly marked with labels or stenciling indicating its proper use. It will never be de-belted and used for practice purposes in L.M.G.s or rifles.

8. It must be noted that the above restrictions apply only to ammunition fired from British weapons. All American ammunition is N.C. loaded and their weapons are designed to fire it satisfactorily.

See BDL Ltd for a rifle with a better barrel - or a new barrel if you're really attached to that rifle.

The only place I have found that makes those barrels is criterion and they seem to be sold out at the moment.

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

I'll admit that I haven't shot it in quite a while. I plan on doing that before I make any decisions one way or another.

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

I have quite a lot of military ball ammo for it, but I was interested in working up an accurate load for it. I will see how you're load data works for it since I have some of those bullets.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

That may be the case with mine as the bore and crown are in very good shape. Which adds to my dilemma since its not a sewer pipe.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

Great! I will give them a look and see what they have. Thanks!

Try flat base bullets. That may well cure your problem.

My website is badly neglected as I'm just getting through a pile of sniper rifle restorations foisted on me during the Covid nonsense. I think every procrastinating project came out of the closets during the lockdowns. I'm winding back the restoration shop when I get them done and the website is going to the top of the priority list. If you want specific items, don't hesitate to ask as I have lots of stuff here. I have a couple of nice No.4's at the moment. One Canadian and the other British.

I too wish that Criterion would build some more No.4 barrels. They seem to have lost interest after the first batch sold out. The guy with the enthusiasm during their development has left for greener pastures. Original barrels in nice condition are getting very hard to find now.

Brian

I took it out and shot it just to see what it would do. Did alot better than I thought it would. I was thinking about gathering up some british web gear to dress the part for the matches. Haven't looked into that just yet though. I will keep a look out for you're website.

Gary

So there, now you don't have to do anything.