My First No. 4 Mk. 1T - Maybe??

Took this home from a big LGS yesterday. My first Enfield sniper. I know a little about the Ts, but not even enough to be dangerous. What do I actually have here?

The seller claimed it is a BSA gun, all-matching, and was "checked" by Roger Payne a little while back--not taking Roger's name in vain...just reporting what the seller said. Since Roger's on the forum, he may recall (or not, if the seller was lying!).

Regardless of whether this one is real, I paid what I consider is a fair price, I like it, and am gonna keep it! Haven't tested accuracy because haven't yet checked headspace or done other pre-shooting checks.

Couldn't photograph it, but "ENGLAND" is stamped directly on top of the receiver under the scope turrets.

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Looks like a cracker!

Hello. Well, in all honesty I can't remember if I gave my two penn'orth on this one or not; I do get people asking me for opinions on a fairly regular basis & my memory is terrible, so me not recalling doesn't mean much!

You have a very nice early 1944 (first serial run with no letter prefix) BSA Shirley rifle. Everything looks ok to me. The Sykes wood is absolutely classic on unadulterated 1944 rifles. The bolt is original matching, & the zero bolt head is reassuring.
The original scope, 9992 would, speaking off the top of my head, have been a second contract Houghton Butcher Mk1, & as you no doubt know, your scope & bracket are mis-matched to the rifle. However, both are genuine & correct & the UIC Mk2/1 (unatltered Mk2 scope tube with Mk2 OS number but Mk3 drums fitted) is a scarce piece. It may have been converted in service from Mk2 to Mk2/1 but I have a hunch that it may have left the factory as a 2/1, with the designation not getting amended. The knurling on the UIC drums is quite distinctive, as is the font of the R&D scales, & I think your drums are UIC.
That's only my feeling though. Either way you have a lovely rifle, scope & bracket, & I would definitely give them house room.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Either way you have a lovely rifle, scope & bracket, & I would definitely give them house room.

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Wow! I was a bit on tenterhooks on this one since I'm none too edjumacated on the Ts. Looks like I won the lottery on this one.

Now to get the headspace, bore quality, etc., checked and take to to the range (my backyard).

Thanks much, Roger!

Looks a lovely example.....congratulations on a nice score :thup:

I don't remember seeing a Mk.2/1 marked as a Mk.2, in fact I don't recall ever seeing a U.I.C. Mk.2 before; anyone else?

What's up with the serial number on the scope tj214? Is it legible past the "21"?

The rifle as mentioned is a pristine original from what I can see and I had a 1944 M47C once with the same original blued finish. Whether that was just before the phosphate finish was introduced or that process was unavailable for a time I don't know.

I had 9546 at one time IIRC, but it would not have been a dated scope as HBM gave up dating their production in 1941, whereas Kodak Ltd. and William Watson continued to do so.

What I find interesting is that Mk.I scope No.9992 was probably made at least a year and possibly as much as two years before it was actually fitted to that rifle some time in 1944.

The scope has seen plenty of use and no post-war refurbishment which is slightly interesting in that it might suggest that some of these Mk.2/1 scopes saw service in WWII. Of course it could just as well be post-war service.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

I don't remember seeing a Mk.2/1 marked as a Mk.2, in fact I don't recall ever seeing a U.I.C. Mk.2 before; anyone else?

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They aren't common but over the years I've managed to acquire three.

Here are two of them. They currently look appalling, & as you may surmise they came out of India somewhat the worse for wear. They, like so many other rifles & scopes, are on my 'to do' restoration list!!

The third Mk2 is interesting as it is built on what was presumably a surplus Mk1 tube, with the Mk1 changed to Mk2, along with the OS466A being barred through & the OS1650A being added.
If there's any interest I'll try & get a photo.

Hey Surpmil

"The scope has seen plenty of use" is very polite terminology indeed!

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

What's up with the serial number on the scope tj214? Is it legible past the "21"?

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The serial is definitely "No 21." There are no numbers past the "1."

From examining under a strong magnifying glass I'm certain the abrasion (which is consistent with abrasions on many other parts of the scope) just aft of the "1" does not indicate additional digits were intentionally or accidentally obliterated. Also the abrasion is not deep enough to have obliterated any numbers engraved as deeply as the rest.

Sorry about the focus; this is as focused as my iPhone camera will allow.

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Another attempt to show the abrasion depth aft of the serial. I don't know how to get a better angle to show it.

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Congrats on your purchase, #21 is the highest two-digit s/n of a UIC Mk 2/1 with Mk 2 OS1650A tube-type markings with a second lot in the 230-300 s/n range. Attached is a picture of your scope from earlier times showing less corrosion.