Storage of Lee Enfields / Milsurps

Folks, I am slowly managing to build up a humble collection of LEs and a couple of other US milsurps (garand, 03-A3 and M1917 as I live here). Presently my rifles, due to children, have been consigned to the garage area in a locked room and in turn, in the safe. The garage is cold, and there is some moisture in the air - foggy area. Inside the safe I have one of those silicon dehumidifying bags which periodically (when the markers turn red) I put in the oven to dry out and then put back to continue taking the moisture out of the air in the safe. It generally lasts about 4 - 6 weeks before it needs to be recooked.

Question: Is it possible to have the stock dry out too much if in a constantly dehumidified atmosphere?? Would that affect accuracy and the integrity of the stocks so they split? And is the annual BLO / Turps 50/50 wipe down enough to counter that?

My lathes and milling machine, as well as other power equipment, are stored in a locked garage. I had a lathe, in an uninsulated/unheated shop. Needless to say, humidity and sweating were a huge problem. Since I moved all of the equipment into the insulated/heated garage, no problems.
I tried dessicant, around the machinery, it did nothing. I had to make sure, there was decent coat of fluid film on every surface, that could rust.
Even in the insulated/heated shop, the surfaces must be coated. There are several coatings that you can get, to stop rust. With milsurps, you need to be careful, because many of the coatings, will stain the wood and may even be slightly corrosive themselves.
Birchwood Casey, has a very good product, "polarized Sheath". It is great stuff. I use it on all of my firearms and a can, goes a long way. I coat every firearm, before putting it away or displaying at a gun show. Since I've been using it, about 10 years, not one rusty fingerprint has appeared.
It even works well on shop equipment. I've tried to find out what the formula for this stuff is. I know, it contains free silicone and of course a carrier. The nice thing about it is that it doesn't leave any stains. Repeated coats of BLO/turpentine, will darken the wood.

During the American Civil War the mixture of 1/3 raw linseed oil, 1/3 bees wax and 1/3 turpentine was used as a pre-petroleum age cosmoline. ;)

This 1/3 mixture was also used by our forefathers to protect their firearms from the elements when in use. (They borrowed it from their wife's, who used this 1/3 mixture to protect "her" wooden furniture)

In a museum the metal parts of firearms are not oiled, they are given a coat of neutral PH wax to keep the moist air off the metal metal parts.

If air can't get to the metal parts, it can't rust...............

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I've had a few of these rifles in the unheated garage (bear in mind I'm in California so when I say un-heated, it still never drops down to freezing or anything nuts like that) and it's effectively underground having two sides of it into a hillsiee os the temperature, while cold does not vary from the hottest days to teh coldest days. What I am worried about was if it is possible to have air too dry and hence dry the woodwork out and effect the rifle in a negative way.

Damp and humidity........... As well as the usual oil regime, just hang a 60w light bulb close to the bottom of the safe and that will give off JUST enough circulatory heat to keep any damp at bay. And pretty cheap to run too. I suppose you could try first with a 40w bulb..............

To elaborate on Peter's idea; there are electric dehumidifier sticks, (like Goldenrod), available that are specifically designed for gun safes.

The safe and driest "hangout" at my place is the basement ceiling. ;)

Right above the reloading bench..............

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I've ALWAYS wanted a suspended ceiling just like that! Home Despot?

lol, its a bit like a mirror on the ceiling, ...

Seriously tho, good subject I've been too shy to ask about, I mean, everyone seems to know but me ...
Short term storage no problem, guns in safe with silicone bags, wipe with oil, keep it dry etc. but ... I have a spell coming up that might see me out of country for a year. No one in this house is a gun person, so the option of asking for hands on help is not available.
What can I do about longer term storage, particularly the bore? lets say 12 months worth of protection, but not decades like a museum.

I've once bought a JC with a bore that had been carefully stuffed with car grease, is that a reasonable method? In this case the bore was badly corroded before it reached me, and the grease was an attempt to hide it.
What about plugging the barrel at each end and filling it with oil, ie empty brass in the breach, fill ' er up, rag in top.
Or, soaking a strip of oil soaked cloth down the full length of the bore.
Modern; is there a modern product, ie teflon or silicone, that can coat a bore or external surface and remain free of do overs for 12 months? The problem with this one is that these products can be available at every gunshow in the US but haven't been heard of down under, so ideally a modern product should be something commonly and locally available. Alternately, available online, thinking on it I would buy online if I was serious about leaving the toys for a year.

My favorite, any homespun ways to do this, easy, simple, reliable? Vegemite probably doesn't count.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RJW NZ

I've ALWAYS wanted a suspended ceiling just like that! Home Despot?

lol, its a bit like a mirror on the ceiling, ...

Seriously tho, good subject I've been too shy to ask about, I mean, everyone seems to know but me ...
Short term storage no problem, guns in safe with silicone bags, wipe with oil, keep it dry etc. but ... I have a spell coming up that might see me out of country for a year. No one in this house is a gun person, so the option of asking for hands on help is not available.
What can I do about longer term storage, particularly the bore? lets say 12 months worth of protection, but not decades like a museum.

I've once bought a JC with a bore that had been carefully stuffed with car grease, is that a reasonable method? In this case the bore was badly corroded before it reached me, and the grease was an attempt to hide it.
What about plugging the barrel at each end and filling it with oil, ie empty brass in the breach, fill ' er up, rag in top.
Or, soaking a strip of oil soaked cloth down the full length of the bore.
Modern; is there a modern product, ie teflon or silicone, that can coat a bore or external surface and remain free of do overs for 12 months? The problem with this one is that these products can be available at every gunshow in the US but haven't been heard of down under, so ideally a modern product should be something commonly and locally available. Alternately, available online, thinking on it I would buy online if I was serious about leaving the toys for a year.

My favorite, any homespun ways to do this, easy, simple, reliable? Vegemite probably doesn't count.

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I have used RIG (rust inhibiting grease) for years but it is very hard to find now, below is a link for the latest and greatest corrosion protection products.

Corrosion Protection Products for Rifles, Shooting, Benchrest Competition, Varminting and Firearms Storage

For the benefit of those in the UK and maybe Europe, at Warminster for long term preservation, we use a spray can of a stuff called SUPERTROL 001 It's a black grease stuff that sprays out as a vapour and just spreads by capilliary action like there's no tomorrow, all over the steel. It's got fantastic penetration properties, flexible and water repellent. All of our barrels are coated internally and everything is sprayed with it under the wood etc after stripping and prior to assembly.

Just as a little aside, as I'm prone to do, about 10 years ago I bought a brand new 'old - original' style mini. One of the last 500 from the production line. As you're well aware, British cars, especially Rover, were made from water soluble steel that appears to rot out before your very eyes. I had it in my garage for 6 months or so, unregistered and during that time, virtually stripped the car, less the engine of course. I 'liberated' 12 or so cans of this stuff, acquired some 3' long lengths of the plastic flexible nozzles and set about spraying deep into EVERY internal surface of the car, box sections, both inside and outside. Behind and into every nook and cranny, behind every seam.............. you get my drift ........?

For a year or so, some of this stuff was dripping from the seams and spot welded joints onto my immaculate garage floor but while there was this grease there, it wasn't rusty. I repeated the process after about 7 years and just treat it to a quick blow job with the cans every so often. It is still absolutely rust free.

If you need some, I don't think it's generally supplied except to the trade and big organisations, here's the address, taken off one of the now empty 'liberated' tins.
SUPERTROL 001. Action Can Ltd, Old Boston Trading Estate, Haydock, Merseyside WA11 9SF. Tel: 01942 - 713667 And it's called old Boston trading estate because it's where they assembled the Boston aeroplanes that came over on the ships to Liverpool docks

The RAF also use this stuff to protect some of their old aircraft

Protecting FIREARMS From DETERIORATION

PART 1 (OF 5 PARTS)

RALPH VAN BUREN (45B40-95B40)

I’ve been interested in firearms and firearms related items for more than forty-five (45) years, and I’ve “collected” (i. e. accumulated) a variety of those things during that time. I’ve always made it a priority to carefully store all of my various firearms, all of my firearms related items, and all of my more than fifty (50) year “collection” (i. e. accumulation) of tools and tool related items to fully protect them from all types of deterioration. I’ve never had – and I’ll never have – any type of special storage room/safe/area, so I’ve always stored all of my firearms and firearms related items in bedroom closets and in attics (yes, in attics, but not in cellars), and I’ve always stored all of my tools and tool related items in cellars, in garages, and in motor vehicles. While bedroom closets (even in New York state) are decent places to store firearms and firearm related items, attics (especially in New York state) are less than good places to store firearms and firearm related items, particularly if those things are not used for many years. And cellars, garages, and motor vehicles (again, especially in New York state) are not the best places to store tools and tool related items that are also not used for many years.

Initially, I used a variety of protective liquids – 3-In-1 Oil ®, L. S. Starrett Tool Oil ®, RIG ® [Rust Inhibiting Grease], Vaseline ®, Reil & Fuller Anti-Rust ® (a thin liquid that solidifies into a very durable wax-like coating after its carrier evaporates), Rustoleum Temporary Protective Coating ®, motorcycle spray chain lubricant, and a variety of other products designed for firearms and/or tools. When I attended the 1967 National Rifle and Pistol Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, one of the many things that I learned from my “coach” – United States Marine Corps Master Sergeant Leander Ziegelbauer – including how to shoot a National Match M-14 rifle, was how to protect firearms for long term storage using VPI [Vapor Phase Inhibitor] treated paper. VPI treated paper, which is now most commonly produced as VCI [Volatile or Vapor Corrosion Inhibitor] treated paper, has been used successfully to protect ferrous and non-ferrous products from deterioration by the United States Military and by many commercial companies for more than fifty (50) years. Almost all L. S. Starrett tools have been factory wrapped in VCI treated paper or VCI treated cardboard containers for many years, Nicholson files and many of their other tools have also been factory wrapped in VCI treated paper for many years, and the distinctive Sierra Bullet “green” boxes have been made from VCI treated cardboard for many years also. I’m sure that there are many, many, many more examples of ferrous and non-ferrous products that are routinely protected by their manufacturers from deterioration with VCI treated paper, VCI treated cardboard containers, and other kinds of VCI treated products.

Ever since I returned home from the 1967 National Rifle and Pistol Matches, I’ve made it a habit of storing all of my firearms, most of my firearms related items, and many of my tools in G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS. The particular bags that I’ve used are forty (40) inches long – I believe that they were originally designed for storing M1 carbines – and are a combination of fabric, foil, and paper. Back then, I bought two (2) sealed 50-bag packages of those BAGS for less than $50.00, but now I only have one (1) of them that has never been used. The label on each of those long ago unsealed packages reads:

1005-336-0226
BAG, BARRIER, W/VCI TREATED LINER
PER DWG. B7265931
PROTECTIVE COATINGS CORPORATION
CLIFTON, NEW JERSEY
DA-19-058-AMC-1408(W)

And the outside of each bag is labeled:

MIL B-131D CLASS 1 AND 2 LOT NO. 7
PROTECTIVE COATINGS CORP.
PC-311C JAN 1966
PROTECTIVE
COATINGS CORP.
MIL-B-40028 1.66

I learned more about using those G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS during my two (2) months of advanced training in the United States Army in 1970 as a Small Arms Repairman – M. O. S. (Military Occupation Specialty) 45B – while attending the United States Army Ordnance Center And School at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Aberdeen, Maryland. And I personally observed their superior effectiveness throughout my almost thirty-three (33) months of active duty in the United States Army in 1970 through 1973 as a Military Policeman – M. O. S. (Military Occupation Specialty) 95B – while stationed in the Federal Republic Of Germany (West Germany).

In my opinion, those G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS are 100% effective for protecting the firearms, firearms related items, tools, and tool related items from all types of deterioration – no if’s, no and’s, no but’s, no or’s, no nor’s, and no for’s.

Photographs of a few of the firearms, firearms related items, tools, and tool related items that I’ve stored in G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS over the past more than forty (40) years can be seen in my “WEBSHOTS” photograph albums ( CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING LINK )45B40_95B40's photos and albums on webshots.

If you’re interested in exactly what VPI/VCI treated paper and VPI/VCI treated products are and how they work, you may be interested in reading PART 2 ( OF 5 PARTS ) .

If you’re interested in exactly what I was taught at the United States Army Ordnance Center And School at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Aberdeen, Maryland concerning PROCESSING AND PACKAGING OF SMALL ARMS FOR STORAGE , you may be interested in reading PART 3 ( OF 5 PARTS ) .

If you’re interested in seeing exactly how I used those G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS to protect Springfield Armory NIB National Match M1 Rifle SN 5796843 from all types of deterioration, you may be interested in reading PART 4 ( OF 5 PARTS ) .

If you’re interested in knowing what I currently use (and have used for more than a year now) in place of those G. I. VCI PROTECTIVE GUN BAGS – because, to the best of my knowledge, those bags are no longer generally available commercially – you may be interested in reading PART 5 ( OF 5 PARTS ) . Unfortunately, it’ll be a few days before I’ll be able to post that information.

Protecting FIREARMS From DETERIORATION

PART 2 (OF 5 PARTS)

RALPH VAN BUREN (45B40-95B40)

I would never attempt to explain exactly what VPI/VCI treated paper and VPI/VCI treated products are and how they work in my own words, so I have quoted the following three (3) paragraphs from the website of VCI2000 (http://vci2000.com), one of the many United States companies that manufacture a wide variety of VCI products:

VCI’s generally come as solid, for convenience in handling. Volatility is simply a means of transport. Protective vapors disseminate within an enclosed space until equilibrium – determined by the partial vapor pressure – is reached. The inhibiting process starts when the vapors contact the metal surface and condense to form a thin barrier of micro-crystals. In the presence of even minute traces of moisture, the crystals dissolve and develop strong ionic activity. The result of such activity is adsorption of protective ions onto metal surfaces, with the concurrent formation of a molecular film that fosters breakdown of contact between the metal and an electrolyte. The presence of an invisible monomolecular film does not alter any of the important properties of the metal, even in precise electronic applications, where properties such as conductivity, or dimensional tolerances are critical, and where even minute deviations could cause malfunction. VCI’s migrate to distant metallic surfaces. This ability enables VCI’s to protect metals without direct contact with metals. VCI’s need only to be placed in the vicinity of the metals to provide protection. VCI’s will migrate to metallic surfaces through the vapor phase and the inhibitor will be adsorbed on the surface. The protective vapors will distribute within the enclosed space until equilibrium is reached. Equilibrium is set by the compound’s partial vapor pressure. Too high a vapor pressure will cause the inhibitor to be released to such an extent that a protective concentration cannot be maintained. On the other hand, a low-vapor pressure inhibitor is not used up as quickly and can thus assure more-durable protection, but more time is needed for a protective vapor concentration. This raises the risk of corrosion during the initial period of saturation, and if the space is not sealed, a protective concentration may never be reached.

VCI’s were originally developed for protection of ferrous metals in tropical environments, an approach that soon proved limiting because of incompatibility with nonferrous metals. Recent developments are based on the synthesis of compounds that provide satisfactory “general” protection, i.e., they protect most commonly used ferrous and nonferrous metals and alloys. Investigations of electrochemical behavior show that these compounds belong to family of mixed or “ambiodic” inhibitors capable of slowing both cathodic and anodic corrosion processes. Active ingredients in VCI’s are usually products of reaction between a volatile amine or amine derivative and organic acid. The product obtained as a result of this reaction – “aminocarboxilates” – are the most commonly used VCI’s. Cyclohexylamine, dicyclohexylamine, guanidine, aminoalcohols, and other primary, secondary, and tertiary amine salts represent the chemical nature of VCI’s. VCI’s, although ionized in water, undergo a substantial hydrolysis that is relatively independent of concentration. This independence contributes to the stability of the film under a variety of conditions.

The absorbed film of the VCI on the metal surface causes a repulsion of water molecules away from the surface. This film also provides a diffusion barrier for oxygen, decreasing the oxygen concentration, and thus reduction of the cathodic reaction. Strong inhibition of the anodic reaction results from the VCI’s having two acceptor-donor adsorption centers that form a chemical bond between the metal and the inhibitor. Adsorption of these compound changes the energy state of metallic surface, leading to rapid passivation that diminishes the tendency of metal to ionize and dissolve. In addition to preventing general attack on ferrous and nonferrous metals, mixed VCI’s are found to be effective in preventing galvanic corrosion of coupled metals, pitting attack, and, in some cases, hydrogen embrittlement.

Protecting FIREARMS From DETERIORATION

PART 3 (OF 5 PARTS)

RALPH VAN BUREN (45B40-95B40)

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UNITED STATES ARMY ORDNANCE CENTER AND SCHOOL
Aberdeen Proving Ground Maryland

( CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING LINK )
1970 SMALL ARMS REPAIR COURSE pictures from hobbies & interests photos on webshots

Protecting FIREARMS From DETERIORATION

PART 4 (OF 5 PARTS)

RALPH VAN BUREN (45B40-95B40)

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On September 8, 1971 – while I was a Military Policeman on active duty in The United States Army in The Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) – I purchased Springfield Armory National Match M1 Rifle S. N. 5796843 ( 1003-726-6476-B001 RIFLE U . S . C/ 30 M1 NM ) through the Director Of Civilian Marksmanship. The rifle’s receiver was originally manufactured in 1955 and was used by Springfield Armory to build a “Type II” National Match M1 Rifle in March of 1963 – the last National Match M1 Rifles built at the Springfield Armory were built in 1963.

That rifle was shipped to my brother, Roger, because he possessed a TYPE 01 ( DEALER IN FIREARMS ) FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE . He removed the rifle from its original sealed VPI ® paper lined cloth and foil United States Military packaging, visually inspected the rifle, replaced the rifle into its original packaging, and then resealed that packaging with a large elastic band.

Until I sold that rifle in June of 2009, I stored in a succession of bedroom closets in a succession of sealed VPI ® paper lined cloth and foil United States Military packaging with its action uncocked. I never fired the rifle, I never cleaned the rifle, and I never even disassembled any part or parts of the rifle. The rifle was examined and its action was cycled by several knowledgeable firearms collectors several times between 1973 and 1978.

Of course, I saved the original United States Postal Service Registered Mail box (shipped from Rock Island Arsenal), all of the original packaging materials, the original Gunsling, M1907 (MRT JAN. 1970), and all of the original Director Of Civilian Marksmanship paperwork. I also purchased a corroborating copy of the original shipping receipt provided by The Civilian Marksmanship Program along with a corroborating letter also provided by The Civilian Marksmanship Program verifying that the rifle is an authentic National Match M1 Rifle that was originally sold to me.

When I finally decided to sell that rifle, I placed an advertisement in the Summer 2009 edition of the GARAND COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION Journal. I received many offers for the rifle, and I selected the “right” person to sell it to for $4,500.00. I turned down several higher offers, and I could have easily sold at least five (5) more similar rifles for $4,500.00 each.

( CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING LINK )
SA NIB NM M1 RIFLE SN 5796843 pictures from hobbies & interests photos on webshots