Need help resolving a 1903's insufficient headspace

I have had this RIA 1903 s/n 151,XXX for about 42 years, and I may have put a round or two through it long, long ago before I really knew anything about it.

I got around to ordering a Go and No-Go gauge for it and have found that I cannot close the bolt on the Go gauge. The bolt of my other, sporterized, 1903 closes on it just fine and does not close on the No-Go gauge. Further satisfying me that the gauges are correct is the fact that the bolt of the first gun mentioned will not close on factory-fresh ammo.

Other confusing features of this gun are that it has a scant stock, a 6-42 barrel, no gas relief hole in the extractor, and no Hatcher hole. I believe this rifle was assembled from various parts and certainly did not go through any certification process after rebuild.

I live in the Florida panhandle and am looking for a gunsmith capable of correcting this rifle's ills. I have run through all the local gun shops and smiths and come up empty. I would appreciate any recommendations, especially if they are within reasonable driving distance.

I would rather destroy the gun than pass it on as is to some unsuspecting person.

I have an old friend that lives in Fla and he uses Bruce Dow at Dow Arms room in Dade City Fla. Dow has installed barels and headspaced some M1 rifles for him

Thanks for the Florida recommendation. Dade is about a 5.5 hour drive from here. If I end up using Dow Arms, I'll mail it.

---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Sounds like a parts rifle...but anyway, to fix headspace with existing parts you need to turn the barrel back one complete rotation and that's not so easy for the layman. It will still fit in the wood and with a bit of alteration and fiddling, most won't even be aware. You'd be able to fit a bayonet with some woodwork effort. Easier yet is to get a NOS barrel fitted. They're around.

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Finding the gunsmith is my task now. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Sounds like a parts rifle...but anyway, to fix headspace with existing parts you need to turn the barrel back one complete rotation and that's not so easy for the layman. It will still fit in the wood and with a bit of alteration and fiddling, most won't even be aware. You'd be able to fit a bayonet with some woodwork effort. Easier yet is to get a NOS barrel fitted. They're around.

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I think you’ve got it backwards. Sounds like the barrel may be short chambered and just needs a reaming.

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Originally Posted by Jakeroub

I think you’ve got it backwards. Sounds like the barrel may be short chambered and just needs a reaming.

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That's what I had to do to my 1903
After I lined up the witness marks on the barrel and receiver I ream the chamber until it just closed on a round

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Originally Posted by Jakeroub

I think you’ve got it backwards.

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Once I reread it I guess you're right, just needs a finish ream. That one's easy, get a ream and work carefully. I had a 700 Remington here that was similar, wouldn't chamber factory all the time. Turned out to be a really tight chamber, virtually dust came off when reamed. Just the finest shavings...

There have been some odd answers here, but the last was correct. All replacement barrels are "short-chambered" that REQUIRES fine reaming of the chamber for correct final headspace. There is no extra turning of the barrel further into or out of the receiver!?!? This is not a practice in any respect. As long as the barrel is properly aligned and the barrel thread shoulder is flush with the receiver face with about 35ft/lb torque (if I remember correctly) the only issue is the condition of the chaber itself. Headspacing requires a special reamer easily acquired at a reasonable price, but its is unfortunately easy to cut too much (learned from sad experience).
The rifle may be a parts gun, but it may also have been arsenal reworked but never finished not final proof fired...unlikely, but possible. In any case the replacement barrel and replacement scant stock was not an unusual practice in WWII or post war arsenal rework/repair (see Harrision's or Poyer's reference books) as both such barrels and stocks were in arsenal inventory by that time.
Lsdtly, there is nothing wrong with "parts guns). As long as USGI parts are used and especially if matched for type (version) and mfr. Unless there is written provenance attesting to it being either (parts or arsenal reworked) there is no way to quantitatively verify that is wasnt arsenal reworked.
In any case a properly assembled 1903 parts gun yields the exact same result as an arsenal reworked rifle, and generally built from the same spare parts inventory, so...enjoy!

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

There is no extra turning of the barrel further into or out of the receiver!?!? This is not a practice in any respect.

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Barrel setback has been done successfully for years, it was just the wrong idea here.

Maybe you are thinking about peening or rolling the receiver to move the metal forward which is common practice
I've done this when the witness mark on the barrel goes beyond the receiver mark

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Originally Posted by SkyKid

peening or rolling the receiver to move the metal forward which is common practice

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That's done if the barrel goes past TDC and you need some metal, or an older barrel that has already had the crush factor used when it was installed. I had a 742 Remington in .308 come in that had excess headspace and I set the barrel back one turn to correct it...worked perfectly. But that's not what's needed here, this one just needs a touch of reaming.

If you are mechanically inclined and don't feel like buying one, chamber reamers can be rented.

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Originally Posted by RDG

I cannot close the bolt on the Go gauge

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Before you do anything permanent, clean, clean, and clean the chamber again. Scrub and scrub some more. Stuff some patches soaked in kerosene into the chamber and let it soak, and scrub again. If your rifle has sat for that long, dried oil and grease will affect the reading on your gauge. How do I know? Same thing happened to me. I bought a beautiful Remington 1903. It had a sedgly replacement barrel on it. After thorough cleaning, wouldn't close on a go gauge. I thought short chambered just like others have said. So I chased with a reamer. I pulled out after a couple gentle turns followed by just one good one, since I new I would just need to kiss it if at all to get the bolt to drop. The swarf that came out had no metal on it...just crusty dark brown gunk (not orange/red like rust would be). Closed on the go gauge immediately.

If you've ever disassembled, say a winchester 97 or worse a model 12, which most owners in it's history are too timid to disassemble and really clean, you'll know that decades old grease or oil will cement with dust, fouling, etc. and create a near impenetrable mess. I had a model 12 once that not even a week long soak in kerosene would lift out all the cement from behind the bolt. As a last resort...boiling in water will lift it out, or make it brittle enough to come off with a good scrubbing.

EDIT: if you indeed do have a short chamber, the bolt will not close at all on round (remove all fire control before checking). If it's just old and dirty, the bolt will likely gently squeeze shut on some rounds. Short chambered barrels are like 0.010 short or sometimes more. I've fit some NOS 1903 barrels still in the grease and this was the case. If it's short, your bolt won't come anywhere near closing. You wouldn't even be able to pound it shut with a hammer on round. Post a picture of where your bolt is falling.

From this and other sources I agree that a bit of reaming should help, but I have never reamed a gun and do not plan to start now. Plus, I think I want a Hatcher hole drilled and the extractor to have a hole drilled to match the gas escape hole on the right side of the receiver just like my other 1903 has.

There is a reamer you can get called a pull through finish reamer get that has a rod attached that runs through the end of the barrel I've seen used. Seemed like a relatively simple job. They're not too expensive and can be resold when finished. Cheaper than a gunsmith. Or just a good excuse to get more tools.
This guy uses one at 21:45:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45uOZVzrErE

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Originally Posted by RossMkIIEnjoyer

pull through finish reamer

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If you do end up needing it, you can rent reamers affordably from https://4drentals.com. I have used them several times before.
A pull through reamer would work, but is really designed for actions like m1 garand or carbine where the rear is closed. You can rent a t-handle from 4d with the reamer for your 1903. The first time I reamed a chamber I wrapped vinyl tape around the shank of the handle to help keep it centered in the action. I quickly learned it wasn't needed. If you are patient and go slow, things will turn out perfect. It is very very easy to do. Larry mr. Potterfield shows off how easy it is... he reams at 3:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y54CcDri44

Somebody has to say it: Since it's a low number, shouldn't shoot it anyway.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

A pull through reamer would work, but is really designed for actions like m1 garand or carbine where the rear is closed. You can rent a t-handle from 4d with the reamer for your 1903. The first time I reamed a chamber I wrapped vinyl tape around the shank of the handle to help keep it centered in the action. I quickly learned it wasn't needed. If you are patient and go slow, things will turn out perfect. It is very very easy to do. Larry mr. Potterfield shows off how easy it is... he reams at 3:20.

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Huh. Thanks. Never seen finish reaming with a t-handle. Or maybe I forgot? Had it in my head the barrel was to be pulled and finished in a lathe but the pull through reamer was a work around. Probably gotten that conflated with finishing barrels like for ar15s. That'd be why I keep my books and read again before starting a new project.

Jim, I defer to your broader experience. I speak only of the 1903, and frankly, to the best of my knowledge, the M1 Carbine, Garand, M1918, M14 and pretty much any other smokeless powder Military long arm from any primary combatant of conflicts involving the U.S. I have little practical experience with "modern" bolt action rifles.

I do have a question of the practice though. Im unsure of the typical barrel thread pitch, but unless the pitch is super-fine it would not take much rotation to set the barrel head back quite a bit. Considering the very small difference between "GO" and "Field" gage sizes Im surprised there are chambers cut so short as to require more than just a little headspace reaming. When I cut a short chambered 1903 barrel I have to be VERY careful not to take too much off. I confess with some chagrin that Ive ruined a number of barrels when I cut the chamber too deep with what seemed to be just a turn or two of the reamer. Is rotational alignment not required in such barrel/receiver designs that you are familiar with? If there is no barrel shoulder to compress against the receiver face how can the correct torque be set?

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Im unsure of the typical barrel thread pitch

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Square threads on the 1903, 10 per inch I think, with grooves at 0.051 wide. Yes. google doesn't lie;)

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

When I cut a short chambered 1903 barrel I have to be VERY careful not to take too much off.

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even more careful on an old barrel that appears to be short. Even just a little leftover jagged edges from surface rust on the chamber's shoulder can throw off your go gauge. On new short chambered barrels, it usually takes me 5-20 turns. As such, I make one turn without any downward pressure just to clean out any possible edges left by the rougher, then I take it 2-3 turns at a time with very very light pressure. There is no reason to press down noticeably when finish reaming by hand. Use plenty of cutting oil, clean everything out every 2-3 turns when you check your progress.

setting a 1903 barrel back would require a full turn taken off the shoulder (so ~0.100), and then the same amount taken off the breech face, extractor groove deepened, etc.

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

If there is no barrel shoulder

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There should be a shoulder. I can't picture a military barrel without one, nor a civilian barrel presently. If no shoulder then it would turn against a ring inside the receiver, or like the Lee Enfield, both.

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

it would not take much rotation to set the barrel head back quite a bit

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When you talk about setback, you talk about it in a complete rotation, usually. If it were certain civilian rifles with rapid taper and unmarked barrels you could get away with less. It takes a minute to figure out how much to machine off the shoulder to give one turn to TDC.

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Ive ruined a number of barrels when I cut the chamber too deep

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You wouldn't be alone. Very, very careful. Last M1 rifle I did was a .308 barrel and it took so long with a breech end ream...but turned out perfect and tight.

so,., youv owned it 42 years, and have shot it a bunch, and now all of a sudden it wont close on a go gauge? does it close easy on a factory round? if so, your good to go

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Originally Posted by Chuckindenver

so,., youv owned it 42 years, and have shot it a bunch, and now all of a sudden it wont close on a go gauge? does it close easy on a factory round? if so, your good to go

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No. You have read it wrong. I have NOT shot it a lot. I thought I might have shot it in the past a FEW times, but given that it will NOT close on a factory round makes me think I never shot it and have confused it with my other 1903. STILL LOOKING FOR A GUNSMITH recommendation because my earlier hope is a bit delayed for now.

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Originally Posted by RDG

STILL LOOKING FOR A GUNSMITH recommendation because my earlier hope is a bit delayed for now.

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Well, Chuckindenver has sure worked his share and I'm pretty sure he has a set of gauges and reamers...ship it off to him and he'll return it with a warranty.

ok,, sounds like it just needs to be finished reemed./.
so.
ill touch on a few things posted.
setting the shoulder back. sounds easy, and anyone who says, just set the should back, as most likely never done so, or has a real clue how its done.
turning the shoulder back, on a 1903, would be a almost a 1/4 inch, yes, thats a country mile, you would then have to move the breach face up, that same distance, as well as recut the extractor cut, and recut the cone breach , then, recut the chamber, and then all your brass from that day forward would show were you pushed that chamber forward.
on the 1903, you would have to remove and reinstall the rear sight base. guess what? that rear sight base wont fit anymore, so now what? shims? solder it? mabye some epoxy? lets say it all works out, you figure this out...then you install a bayonet.. well, now what.. its a 1/4 inch too short,
iv been down this road so many times... it would be cheaper and better, if indeed you had long headspace { you dont} to replace the barrel. even if you used a commercial replacement , like criterion or whiteoak.. nice original 1903 barrels are still around .
i dont think. your barrel needs replaced. just finish reemed. so that it will take a live round.
the reason on said anything about turning the shoulder back. is this post is now on a search engine... not so much for you.. the OP but for future viewers..

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Originally Posted by Chuckindenver

setting the shoulder back. sounds easy, and anyone who says, just set the should back, as most likely never done so, or has a real clue how its done.

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I have Chuck...

my comment wasnt directed at anyone , just a clarification, on the process.. i hear turn the shoulder back tossed around in random comments and it makes me cringe lol