My enfield no4 1941 Maltby. what's is story?

Hi,
Here's my ''new'' 1941 enfield no4. I'm trying to understand is story. I'm looking at the marking and, that's what I know.
Can you tell me more you Enfield specialist?

It's a a 1941 Maltby made rifle. FTR in Maltby but no date anywhere. Is it normal? At what time it's been FTR in Maltby?
The wood is from england, Sykes LTD cause of the SL N74 marking. Seems correct WW2 period wood.

B66 on the hand huard?
S on the L flip sight so I guess it's a Savage made shipped to England to help with the MK1 sights problem.
M.B.13 mark on the nose cap ?
SM mark on the barrel band?
N67 on cocking piece?


Thanks!
Mat

Built at Maltby in 1941

Some time later went back to maltby for an FTR.

After the war 'sold out of service' into the UK civilian gun trade (civilian proof markings on muzzle)

Was then sold to a USA customer prior to 1968 (England is the pre 1968 US Import mark)

Some time later made its way from the US to Canada



Components manufactured by various subcontractors :

N74 = W. Sykes Ltd., Horbury, Yorks
SM = Singer Manufacturing
MB = Metal Box Ltd
B66 = ????

Concur with Alan. Additionally I think the B66 is actually the combined L & B logo of Long Branch, the 66 probably identifying a specific examner. The woodwork is replacement, not just the LB made guard. It would almost certainly have left the factory in 1941 wearing beech.

Thanks guys!
I'm wondering if it as been FTR during the war? I heard Maltby stopped production shortly after the war and it's still a mk.1 not a mk2 conversion.

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Originally Posted by wesson357

Thanks guys!
I'm wondering if it as been FTR during the war? I heard Maltby stopped production shortly after the war and it's still a mk.1 not a mk2 conversion.

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Yes, Maltby stopped production of the No.4 shortly after the end of the war, but they may well have continued FTR's on rifles for another few years after wards, so could have gone through FTR there during the immediate post-war refurbishment program between 45-48 era and thus prior to the introduction of the Mk.2.
ROF Matlby didn't close down until 1957.

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

Yes, Maltby stopped production of the No.4 shortly after the end of the war, but they may well have continued FTR's on rifles for another few years after wards, so could have gone through FTR there during the immediate post-war refurbishment program between 45-48 era and thus prior to the introduction of the Mk.2.
ROF Matlby didn't close down until 1957.

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A few years ago (10+) I was looking for some No4 parts and a guy had a good assortment for sale on ebay, I agreed to meet up with him in a pub car-park to have a look at what he had and what I wanted.

Long story short - he had enough parts in the back of his truck to build dozens of complete rifles - all brand new parts, many in 'paper', everything from bodies, barrels, bolts and bolt heads to triggers screws and full woodwork. It turns out that demolition contractors were knocking down the old Malty plant and clearing it for development. This had opened up a way into the old stores in the cellars (basement), so he found his way in and filled his truck.

Obviously I couldn't buy the pressure bearing parts, (but the number 3 bolt heads came in useful as spares for my Enfield 410 shotgun as shotgun bolt heads are not regulated as they are for rifles)
Got all of the other parts I needed at very fair prices

I remember you mentioning that before. Makes me wonder if it was one of those cases of "get rid of it" by walling it up somewhere in the basement, or was it all packed away in expectation of a possible re-opening of the factory at some point?

If it wasn't walled in somewhere you'd think it would have been cleaned out many years ago, by whoever was re-using the buildings.

That Maltby FTR mark is rare one, at least in these parts.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

If it wasn't walled in somewhere you'd think it would have been cleaned out many years ago, by whoever was re-using the buildings.

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Many old industrial buildings get 'boarded up' as they may no longer be in 'prime locations' for todays modern requirements, add to that the fact we are now no longer a 'manufacturing nation' we have little use for big industrial complexes. As highstreet shops close, they are replaced by 'Pound Shops' (Dollar stores), Charity shops and betting shops.

A J Parker Gun-Works was 'discoved' several years after closure by some "Urban Explorers" (illegal breaking into old buildings to 'explore' our history).

AJP Closed for business in 2007, these pictures are from 2013

It's very interesting and I would love to have seen some pics of the Maltby haul!

"I see wonderful things" As Howard Carter would have said....

Many of these WW2 factories and facilities were put up in enormous haste (from crazing cattle to a fully operational factory in a year) sort of haste....

Great example,on the outskirts of my town, they rapidly built a sprawling WW2 Ordnance unit that eventually became a factory after the war.

When the land was sold off and flattened to build a luxury retirement complex a few years ago the demolition team had a nasty surprise. One day while driving across the cleared site a JCB disappeared from sight, it went straight through a cellar roof no one knew was there!

Luckily the driver was unhurt, though not happy being submerged in stinking mud and stagnant water!

They 'sensibly' carried out a Ground penetrating radar survey of the site afterwards and found three more....

Not recorded anywhere by all accounts....

Yes, who can forget that P-H shambles, and the Tom Senior milling machines rusting away, along with a heritage and name recognition built over generations. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't happen in some countries I could name.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Yes, who can forget that P-H shambles, and the Tom Senior milling machines rusting away, along with a heritage and name recognition built over generations.

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It isn't the PH factory, it is the AJ Parker factory - totally differemt operation and very strong competitors.

The AJP factory was in the middle of an industrial area. The PH facility was out on the edge of Parkland, when they closed, it became a shop selling mattresses.

Touché, but was their fate any better than AJP?

It's not the location I refer to so much as the business entity itself and all that went with it.

I was invited in there with Edna's niece & great nephew when they closed the place down. It probably would have been around 2007. It looked little different to in the photo's shown. They'd been duped into letting most of the more interesting stuff go for a song, although I did manage to buy some spares from them & paid them an honest price. There were boxes & boxes of screws, springs, No4 butts strewn all over the place. Fortunately the chap who got in before us missed a few 4T transits chests. I was offered all of the SKN actions, but didn't want them. I gather the police got involved eventually as some of the local kids were found running about with them...! By coincidence they ended up stored with a friend who was a dealer in the gun quarter in Brum. I cleaned up a few for him so that they were fit to sell on, but I've no idea what happened to the vast majority. There was a lot.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

I was offered all of the SKN actions, but didn't want them. I gather the police got involved eventually as some of the local kids were found running about with them...! By coincidence they ended up stored with a friend who was a dealer in the gun quarter in Brum. I cleaned up a few for him so that they were fit to sell on,

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Those appear to have ended up at 'Scott Arms' auctions at Newark, being sold in dribs and drabs over the years. I bought one of the first ones to appear at the princely sum of £23 (+ fees) as the months / years went by they were making around £123 (+ fees).
All seemed to have parts missing - mine was just missing a trigger guard, some have had had bolts missing.

Mine even had the 'same blob of paint' on the butt.
Some of them had 'blue' and some of them had 'yellow' - No idea is there was any significance.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

When the land was sold off and flattened to build a luxury retirement complex a few years ago the demolition team had a nasty surprise. One day while driving across the cleared site a JCB disappeared from sight, it went straight through a cellar roof no one knew was there!

Luckily the driver was unhurt, though not happy being submerged in stinking mud and stagnant water!

They 'sensibly' carried out a Ground penetrating radar survey of the site afterwards and found three more....

Not recorded anywhere by all accounts....

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A similar thing happened on land that was once occupied by the Barr & Stroud factory; they had fairly large stocks of rangefinders but no customers at a time when there was large quantities of military surplus floating around the world.
Even offering the staff a chance to buy one for the princely sum of 10/6d didn't attract any punters.

Some years after the factory had gone and the name had been licenced for a proprietary brand of far eastern binoculars the developer of the old site uncovered cellars still with rangefinders stored inside. I don't believe at this stage any of them were salvageable.

China for one.................who bought a lot of the CNC stuff and lathes from British manufacturing as they closed. I was out there in 2015, and EVERY British made lathe I saw in Shenzhen had a UK lot number on it!!