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Gentleman,
I recently purchased a stack of these...and I have no idea exactly what they are.
I've learned to buy something like this if it's completely new to me ;)
So...educate me! What are they worth? Any thoughts?
It seems strange to me that a stack of them would end up together.
I could put together a list of the serials if anyone is interested.
Attachment 110118
Are they all dated in April 1909? It would appear that they were for newly manufactured rifles and would have been affixed to the wooden shipping crates. Brophy's M1903 book doesn't show one so they are probably scarce.
All different dates:
April 25, 1908 (maybe 1909, this one is smudged)
April 10, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 7, 1918)
August 13, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 7, 1918)
August 14, 1909
August 20, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
September 3, 1909 (with a handwritten notation “short 2 ram rods”)
September 24, 1909
September 27, 1909
October 4, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
October 5, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
October 9, 1909 (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
April 14, 1910
April 20, 1910 (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
April 20, 1910
April 23, 1910
April 25, 1910
April 25, 1910
April 27 (year unclear) (also hand initialed with a date of February 8, 1918)
April 29, 1910
April 30, 1910
Another interesting bit, the serial numbers are not all in order. For example, one of them (August 14, 1909) has a high of 220738 and a low of 1099.
My Wild Guess is that they are 'inventory cards' for a shipment of 1903 rifle crates, (10 rifles per crate - as serial numbered).
The cards, bound together, likely were kept with the crates during shipping, storage, and unit issue.
A very neat type of documentation and a clue as to how things were done. I have never noticed anything like these, before.
You have a pretty neat 1903 Springfield item! The seemingly random mixture of rifle serial numbers is interesting.
'rcathey' - It appears you have 20 of these invoice cards, which must document 200 model 1903 Springfield rifles.
I imagine invoice cards that are riveted/bundled together represent rifle crates that were shipped together.
It appears your cards were completed in 1909 and 1910, when the 'invoiced' rifles were prepared for storage and crated.
The next apparent action, on your top invoice card, is the 1918 signature of receipt by a Sergeant.
Do all your cards have the same date and signature accepting receipt of crates?
How many invoices are in each riveted bundle?
FWIW - This Krag crate picture is courtesy of 'Cyten'; it is numbered and once contained 10 Krag rifles. It probably once had an invoice card.
Attachment 110144
Yep, cards to accompany the rifle chests...would be discarded after receipt by the unit to disburse them. Nice catch of admin paperwork. Can't be many of those around.
I got them on eBay if you can believe it.
They are an exciting look behind the scenes of how these things were handled. It’s certainly intriguing that 20 of these ended up together.
There are two cards in each riveted bundle and they are both the same in each bundle.
Hopefully someone will come along and tell they’re worth a thousand dollars each haha. One for me and $19,000 ones for my bank account!
I would not know the 'value' to put on such a piece of Ordnance Department 'ephemera'.
Value would likely be greater if you had one of the numbered rifle crates or a 1903 Springfield with one of the listed serial numbers.
Do all the cards have the same Date of Receipt? (Feb. 7, 1918)
Do all cards have the large Printed "B"? ... or is the 'matching-mate' marked "C"?
Maybe, an initialed & dated, "A" copy was removed at some point in shipping, as a record (to 'track' location of rifles and changing custody).
The receipt date, on those that have it, is either February 7th or 8th of 1918.
All cards and their riveted mate are marked B. The rivet is tight against the paper and doesn’t appear to have had another sheet removed.
I need to start looking for a 1903 that matches one of these serials!
Ya, get a numbered 1903 Springfield with original 1909 finish, not rebuilt, and the chest it was shipped in.
That will increase the value of the relevant invoice card!
If I run across one that’s on one of these cards, I’ll definitely be buying it and keeping that card. No doubt there.
It will be a "single heat-treat receiver" .... oops ... don't want to start that discussion!
Get the rifle crate first and then fill it.
This is the sort of thing the SRS file entries are based on. An invoice by the issuing authority and a receipt by the receiving organisation would be generated too. The chests would probably have to be returned for reuse, which is why they,too, are serialed.
I’ve googled various phrases and have not come across anything on these. Not so much as a picture of one.
As an earlier poster said, they’re not mentioned in Brophy either.
I must have the only 20 in existence haha. Perhaps too rare to be worth much. No trouble...they’ll store fine with the rest of my 1903 ephemera!
Many of our containers were marked as "Reusable Container" so they didn't get broken down for scrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
Bumping this back up with some more pics. I reached out to Rock Island Auction to see if they'd seen them before. They replied that they were not interested in the items and left it at that. Oh well.
Attachment 110220Attachment 110221Attachment 110222Attachment 110223
What this illustrates for us is that the rifles didn't seem to be shipped in crates by sequential number. They're all over the map, so when someone asks about an SRS check and suggests that this number was issued to a unit so "Mine likely was too"...it's not very likely at all. The serial numbers aren't too close. Not sequential.
That's a great point, Jim. We often say, "if SRS does list some for one unit, yours likely wasn't issued there if it's not listed."Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
This definitely adds that second layer of, "a close number doesn't mean anything."
I feel honored, truly, to be able to buy and share interesting things like this.
It would be you and for instance "Butlersrangers" that showed me that. This is excellent proof, I'm thinking these serials are of brand new rifles by the dates of shipment and then a second set of dates later showing transfer? (1909, 1918)...Quote:
Originally Posted by rcathey
No organisation, then or now, made/makes an effort to ship in sequential order, and any attempt to do so would be pointless.
SA spent much of FY09 and FY10 reworking existing rifles made for .30-'03. Note the wording on the left side of the ticket.
So you suggest these are from rebuild not new issue? Reference the sights...Quote:
Originally Posted by firstflabn
Brophy's SA book presents the armory's annual reports (summaries of activities during the past year). Reports for FY09 and FY10 show over 100k rifles were "cleaned, repaired, chambered, and resighted for Model 1906 ammunition." That would fit the first ticket with the wide range of serial numbers.
The other three tickets with closely grouped serial numbers look more likely to be for new production (assuming Brophy's serial number projections chart is pretty close). The previous year's report (FY08) - shows lots of work on rod bayo conversions and completion of rifles waiting on 1905 sights (and no mention of this work in FY09 and FY10 reports). Perhaps the blank tickets were designed for use in the two big FY08 projects, but were adequate for cataloging complete rifles and were used until the supply was exhausted.
Right, seen...Quote:
Originally Posted by firstflabn