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My son found this rifle and asked me about it. I've never seen one of these and didn't see, or just couldn't find any information here on the Fourm.. Anyone have anything they can share on this rifle. Its quite interesting...
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They are pretty cool rifles, basically the first repeating rifle to be standard issue. By 1871 the Vetterlis were the main issued rifle of the Swiss military. Which to put in perspective how much more advanced they were than their contemporaries, the US was using the Trapdoor Springfield, UK the Martini Henry, Germany the 1871 Mauser, France the Chassepot, etc.
One of the issues with shooting these today is they are a rimfire cartridge, which makes them very difficult to actually shoot. There is two main options used, one being a centerfire conversion (involves drilling a hole in the center of the bolt and making a firing pin extension, fairly basic machining) and using 8mm Lebel brass trimmed and fireformed. The second option being there is cartridges with offset primers specifically for shooting these rifles as unmodified guns. The problem with those is you must manually line up the firing pin with the primer (i.e. no quick shooting), and you have to find them for sale, which I don't know how available they are.
Personally I have a 1871 Cadet Vetterli and a M81. Never shot the M81, still have to decide if I want to convert it (in Canada it has a legal effect turning it from a antique to a non-restricted firearm), but I have shot the Cadet rifle which is a antique even though it has had the modification done as it has no magazine. Neat enough gun to shoot, but it was a lot of effort to get going and my interest waned in using it when I realized it was more effort to use than my musket for a very similar practical effect.
They are cool rifles to collect though, tons of variants, tons of history, tend not to be too expensive due to the lack of practicality in using them. Very finely made though.
Thanks for the information. He's interested in it just because of its design I'm sure it's the $795.00 price that's making him hesitate and him wanting to know more about the rifle of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
I am not sure about prices in the USA but usually in Canada you can find them in the 300-800$ CAD range generally. Doing a quick search I found one 69/71 variant for about 670$ shipped with taxes in. I personally paid about 600$ for my cadet rifle a few years ago, but it was already modified to centerfire.
It depends on what he wants to do with it. There is plenty of nice examples of them out there without many people actually being dedicated collectors of them (unlike say Mausers, or Lee Enfields, etc.). Since the Swiss never took them to war and cared for their rifles, coupled with lack of available ammo, they tend to be in great shape and available. Personally 795$ US would be out of my range, but to each their own. I also don't know what the current market over there is like, maybe it is a fair price as it is harder and harder for me to tell anymore.
In the US $400 maybe $450 as they are essentially wall hangers due to the ammunition issues. I bought one last year at an auction for $350 just because I thought it was neat. It is now in my sons room as he thought it was neat as well.
I have three. An original that I converted to center fire. I reload using level brass. Shoots great except for hitting two feet high at 100.
I also have one that is a Bubba conversion to a carbine that I converted to centerfire. It’s actually in very good condition and very handy in the woods. My reloads with a 44 cal 310 grain gas check lead bullet prints small at 100. Still hits high though. Need to fashion a taller front post to resolve that issue. So it basically has ballistics of a 44 magnum.
The third is another bubba carbine cut down I keep for spare parts.
I told him if it was me I would make an offer of $450.00 it’s been in there shop for over two years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
These rifles are an incredible amount of fun, easy to reload when you use 8 mm LaBelle brass to cut, size and fire form. Not difficult at all.
The conversion is very simple and there is a ton of information right here.
Vetterli Rifles - Swiss Rifles dot com
And for the Vetterli centerfire firing pin carrier, it's right here.
Vetterli firing pin carrier. | swissproductsusa
I just recently acquired one stamped M.81. No import stamp, all numbers matching and everything is original finish.
These were originally chambered in a 10.4 x 38mm rimfire (.41 Swiss). Since rimfire ammo of this caliber has not been made in many decades, a lot of owners have converted their rifle over to have the ability to shoot a .41 centerfire. The conversion process is a relatively simple one, and is reversible. However, if you convert the original bolt, it will always be apparent that a conversion was performed.
My rifle has not been converted, and I am personally debating whether or not to do the conversion. One option that I am seriously contemplating is modelling and machining a new bolt that is 'converted' for the .41 CF cartridge. This way I should be able to completely swap out the bolt so I can shoot the reloadable CF ammo, yet still retain the unaltered original bolt that would be able to be swapped back out should the need arise.
These rifles were originally designed in 1869 I believe. To put this into perspective, The US was just coming off of the civil war in 1865. The vast majority of those rifles were single shot muzzle loaders. This new Swiss design had a 12 round tubular magazine +1 in the chamber. A 13 shot repeating bolt action. Absolutely cutting edge technology at the time! Since this one is stamped M.81, it was manufactured in 1887, 88, or 89. Rifles manufactured form 1882 through 86 were still stamped as M.78, although they had the upgrades of the M81 design. These were designated as M78/81.
All in all, these are fascinating rifles that hold an important spot in firearm history.
I bought a second bolt back when they were still available but I still haven't gotten around to converting it.
One downside to this particular rifle though... the bayonet is probably going to cost me more than I paid for the entire rifle!
Of course I need a 1878, 1881, or 1887 Vetterli sawback bayonet. Massive things. Overall length was just over 23½" long (blade was about 19" long).
Speaking of the rifle though... The more I clean it up, the better I like it. The gem under all of the dirt.
I very much like the idea of finding a spare bolt to convert. I have been watching for one, but so far they are rather elusive.