BBC 1 THIS MONDAY 20TH AUGUST PANORAMA - LEGAL WEAPON

For those that can get this, its about the amount of pistols in the UK purchased legally which you can't "alledgely" buy the ammunition for anymore, and are now the guns prevalent on the streets used by criminals with home made ammo made for them................hello!!!. If its out there, there's always someone who can make a round for it......................unbelieveable naivity!!!

Will be a good watch to see how they slant it, before yet another ban comes in. It involves the U.S too!!!

BBC One - Panorama, Legal Weapon

UK will be screwed again as usual

Of course ammo can be made, there's reference books about it. Once again, laws made by those who have no actual idea of reality. It's like teaching that "The enemy is stupid and incapable"...

Ill thought out, poorly worded legislation + Registered Firearms Dealer with criminal intent = recipe for disaster!

To all our fellow British members, get a sturdy umbrella ready because an absolute Sh1t storm of a backlash and public anti gun hysteria is heading in our direction:runaway: from this program. Sec58 (2) has been under scrutiny for a while now and this will be the excuse needed to sally forth and redact large numbers of calibres from the list.

The lazy route would be to remove all the centre fire calibres from the list, regardless of their applicable firearms. So that's exactly what they will do in my option...:bash:

John,
Agree with your overview. Can't understand at all as an ex Policeman why a more robust procedure wasn't put in place surrounding these weapons if that was the way to legislate their future!
It makes NO sense whatsoever, and yes this programme will stir people up yet again with false and inaccurate information.

Well,I have just watched a total hatchet job of some of the worst gutter journalism I have ever seen the BBC responsible for.

Antique firearms referred to as "Murder Weapons" throughout ...

The pies de resistance of this piece of sensationist cr*p was the reporter referring to *(and I quote) " White middle age men procuring ammunition that kills young black men".

Gob smacked and deeply offended by this racist rubbish, complaint to the BBC on its way tomorrow.

* edit ...I stand corrected Roy, I would watch it again to get it spot on, but my blood pressure won't stand it!

Typical Biased Broadcasting Corporation / Panorama drivel

QUOTE 'Ammunition made by a white man, used to kill black men' .................................................. .................................... summed it up completely.

Conveniently neglected to mention that you need an FAC to purchase primers and powder and NABIS were their self promoting biased self again, represented by a Ch Supt, who clearly knows very little about her subject.

30 minutes of my life I'll never get back

(The quote about White Middle Aged Men, was in connection with buying Antique guns. i.e. they sent the white reporter to the US to buy a gun, because it is predominantly white middle aged men that buy/procure them. It wasn't used in ref to killing black men, that was the ammunition quote.)

It also wouldn't have made very good tv (and the crap about not showing the reloading process was pathetic) if before loading the bullet in the case at NABIS they mentioned the case had to be primed and filled with powder, and they had mentioned the small matter of those not being available if you don't have a FAC or aren't an RFD :rolleyes:

NABIS.....hmmm. It was them (Martin Parker) that ACPO FELWG tasked with challenging the classification of the CCA VZ58 back in Feb 2015, when the Home Office had already classified it as Section 1. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

Disgraceful and very poor journalism and a total waste of my BBC fee on this occasion, sending a non BBC employee to the US to bring the very same gun back, what the hell did that cost, if the gun as stated was $2500 dollers US.

The producers were hoping they wouldn't get stopped at the airport to try and make a point there too, but they did, and gave that 10 seconds coverage............awful.

Good on you Border Force on this occasion, at least you challenged him with his new founded Police Museum piece paid for by the British public, because thats where that is going or into the crusher!!

David, It was a pathetic, though typically BBC liberal piece of .... and I use this term liberally "journalism".

Potentially dreadful news for all the perfectly legal law abiding collectors of antique American revolvers.

Yet again, it will no doubt be hastily drafted legislation to attack the law abiding, because of a stupid and criminally minded element within our society that are already breaking existing firearms law!

New Zealand had a the same thing 30 or so years ago. Handguns in 'obsolete' calibres (including .455) could be purchased without licence and then someone started importing odd calibres from Fiocchi. Whilst it never became much of a criminal problem, several people were caught shooting them. In 1992 the law was changed and now any handgun that fires any centrefire or rimfire cartridge is 'on ticket'. All genuine antiques, including patent ignition, are free of licence. Modern-made replicas are subject to having the correct licence and permit to procure, just the same as any cartridge handgun. This system works fairly well and it is no problem (on the spot without fee) for permits to be issued to licenced owners. The problems occur when various Police jurisdictions start putting their own (usually illegal) interpretation on the law. We only have a single nation-wide Police force but I can see it being a problem in the UK, USA, etc. where there are many different jurisdictions.

The problem here Woodsy is that handguns apart from antique/obsolete calibres were banned in the UK in 1997, so you cannot put antique/obsolete calibres on licence.

There will only one outcome if they are controlled, they will have to be either deactivated, or handed in.

But, because they are off ticket now, there is no record of them. So the ones in criminal hands will stay in criminal hands, and the problem won't have been fixed.

Evening David,I would guess that if centerfire cartridges are redacted from the list, long arms ( Martini etc) will revert to Sec1, as they used to be.

Revolvers will fall under Sec7 (1/3) depending if you wish to shoot or keep at home.

This way, the Home office can neatly sidestep any compensation bill, by saying apply for an FAC with Sec7 authority, or hand them in for destruction.

As David quite rightly points out, the criminals probably won't bother applying!

So the only people being affected are legitimate collectors and dealers who might well have many thousands invested in stock/collections.

These will probably be a lot harder to sell tomorrow morning after the doubt and insecurity in the market introduced by this piece of gutter journalism...

didn't mention if you used modern propellants in antique stuff might explode !!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philb

didn't mention if you used modern propellants in antique stuff might explode !!!!

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Great way to end up with a hook for a hand!

Haven't seen it yet, but will try as I'm home for a short while after a long spell away, I think maybe the Government have there hands full at present trying to work out a deal regarding Brexit..... (still can't come quick enough in my eyes) rather than taking a keen interest in the obsolete calibre list....... the main reason for the programme is the dealer who was found guilty of supplying the criminals......

All RFD's in my area have had a unannounced vist from the The Firearms & Explosives Dept, to go over stock and records, all due to that dealer.

I would think if they did retract some calibre's it would only be the ones that are very close to some existing calibre's etc, as regards to Martini Henry,s etc there are a lot of these on folks FAC's already, if you have a look on Henry Krank's web page they sell a lot of obsolete calibre cases and components.

As a collector and occasional shooter it does pain me that our hobby is getting slowly crushed due to a few individuals, lets just hope there is no knee jerk reactions and as mentioned they look at how many Sec 58 firearms are out there.......... there must be over a few hundred just adorning pub walls.....

Although I'm not a quitter like David Cameron, ( it was a speech he made just before the brexit vote where he stated "Were not a nation of quitters" on finding the majority has voted out he quits!!)

The future won't get any better for shooters and not sure how collectors will fair in the future, its the reason I bought my Matchless WD G3L and get my foot in the door regarding Military vehicles, I would say another 10 years and I'll be selling off most if not all my collection but its more to do with moving to a warmer climate, only problem with the new interest is the talk of no more petrol engined cars etc by a certain date, so I'll be screwed trying to find petrol or the price of it will be ott ........ a lot to be said about stamp collectors :lol:

Very true Geoff....

Since 1968 we have seen a steady thumb screwing of our shooting hobby in the UK.

Regarding petroleum based vehicles, we are already finding it harder and harder to get fuel in rural areas.

The small town I live in has around 8,000 residence, it used to have four filling stations, now it has one with the strong possibility that that particular Tesco owned station (with its **** poor quality fuel) will also be sold for development.

Right across my area, they are disappearing fast.

The main issue being the value of the land they are built on, a four bedroom house here is £380,000 plus now, so if you happen to own a small filling station and you can get planning consent to build three such properties on your plot of land .... Guess what they do!