National Match, International Match? Need help!

Howdy,
My name is Greg, and I just found this site last night. I wish I had known about this place years ago!

I have a 1903 Springfield that is unlike any I have had before. I have been trying to research it, and I just don't know how. I saw that some of you have SRS and DCM sales records, and I hope you can help me.

The serial number on the rifle is 1,403,758. I know that the reciever was built in 1931, apparently after the National Matches at Perry. I have been told that the rifle before it, and the one after it, were NM rifles, and that they were built in blocks, so presumably, it is a NM reciever. It is not in an original stock by Springfield. It has what looks like the German double set triggers in what I can find of the Brophy book online. The triggers are sweet! It has been fitted with a Lyman 48 sight, which is missing the slide. I am not sure what the difference is between the Lyman 48s and the 48c.

The barrel is what caught my attention.

It was made by legendary barrelmaker Eric Johnson.

I have some rifles built by Johnson. He was famous for rimfire barrels. I know a couple of people that have copies of his shop records from 1933 to 1965. Eric was the 1929 prone rimfire National Match champion at Camp Perry. He won with one of his own barrels. According to Doug Wickland, a senior curator at the NRA National Firearms Museum, Johnson barrels still hold the record for the number of National Chamionships won with a custom barrel maker's barrel. At least up until two years ago when I spoke with him. I presume this means from a small, individual barrelmaker, not a custom barrel making factory. Johnson retired in 1965 at the tender age of 78, so it seems to me that is an impressive record. Mr. Wicklund also told me that discriminating shooters still look for rifles with Johnson barrels.

One of the people with the records told me that Eric built 7 1903's in 1935. I don't know how many he built overall, because he focused on rimfires. I have found an ad from 1932 in the American Rifleman, during a period when he was in Ardmore OK, in partnership with John Dubiel. He advertised 30-06 match barrels and installation. I also read in one of the 1932 American Rifleman where he had done some fine shooting at 600 yards either in OK or TX, or both.

Prior to this, Eric had worked for Hoffman Arms, from 1923 to 1928.
Hoffman also employed James (?) Howe, of Griffin & Howe after he left the company with his name in it.

Eric has built rifles for Art Jackson, Art Cook, and many other legends of rimfire shooting. His rifles have been to the Olympics. Before there was Karl Kenyon as a legendary rimfire gunsmith, there was Eric Johnson.

I say all of this to set a background about Eric Johnson for those who don't know who he was. Even the high end gunshops that I sometimes go to here in Kentucky (yes, we have some) don't know about Johnson, and presume the gun has been bubba'ed.

Eric Johnson was NOT a bubba!!!

I have done enough shameless promotion. It is not my intention to come accross as arrogant, please do not interpret it that way, I just wanted to lay the background about Johnson so y'all won't think the rifle has been bubba'ed too much.

The rifle dates from a time period when Johnson did not put serial numbers on his barrels, nor did he record the serial number of the reciever. On some later rifles, it is possible to find out who owned them, which allows them to tell their story about who owned them and what shooting accomplishments were made with them. Some of the info can be backtracked through match reports in the American Rifleman from different time periods. It sort of brings the shooter back to life. Some of these rifles are sort of like functional pieces of history, and I want to help them tell their story as opposed to just ending up in a gunstore after an inheritance or estate auction with no one respecting them for what they are.

So, if I can get some info from the SRS records and particularly the DCM sales records, I might be able to get a name. And if I can get a name, I can go back to the guy with the shop records and find out who it was made for, and hopefully when.

The rifle is pretty much mint. The barrel is 1 inch at the muzzle. The bolt is polished, but the reciever has been blued, so the rails aren't polished. The striker (?) has CV, for chrome vanadium, stamped on it. The extractor does not, don't know if it was buffed off, or never there. The bolt does not have a receiver serial number on it, it shows a couple of grind spots, don't know if it was ever there or not. I read in what I could find of the Brophy book online, that there were heavy barrels made for some of the NM rifles by Winchester, Remington, Pope, Hoffman Arms, and a couple of others. The barrel is 28 inches long, scope bases are installed on the barrel. The buttplate appears to be missing a piece to make it adjustable, it is a bit short.
The double set triggers appear to look like the German ones pictured in the Brophy book. They go light, and crisp. I don't have a trigger pull gauge, but I am guessing in the 3-4 oz range as currently adjusted, don't know how light they go. My Anschutz goes to 2oz, they are not that light. The firing pin spring is EXTREMELY STRONG! I am guessing this is one of the type springs designed by Garand. It is the strongest spring, by far, I have ever had on a Springfield. The cocking piece is not headless.

If someone can tell me how to post pics, I will. It might take a day or two to catch my teenage son to help me, I am computer challenged as he puts it. He is being charitable. I am computer stupid!

Sorry for such a long first post, but I wanted to give y'all enough information to go on, if you are merciful enough to help me.

Thank you!
Greg

your number is not on the DCM sales list.

Hi Greg,

Here's a link for a couple of ways to post photos.

How do I upload or post images on MILSURPS.COM? - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Looking forward to seeing your photos!

You might contact Michael Petrov (I don't know if he posts here, but he does post on Jouster). He would definitely be the guy to talk to about your rifle.

Is this one I already looked up?

Hi Michael!
Yes, you were kind enough to look this one up for me. It has been a while since we talked. I did not think to ask what you looked it up in when we talked, if you told me where you looked it up, I just plain forgot. If you looked it up in the SRS records, I sincerely apologize to you and the folks I would have pestered here. I would not have have posted about it in that case. When I found this site, I saw where someone asked about looking a rifle up in the SRS records and the DCM sales records. I thought perhaps someone could put a name to the rifle, especially with the DCM records, and I could then get in touch with you or Hap and compare it to Johnson's shop records.

I still have not had my son help me with the pics. When I do, and it will be soon I hope, I will send them to you, too.

Again, I apologize if I have offended, I could not recall where you looked the rifle up.

Thanks!
Greg

404, FWIW Eric Johnson is mentioned albeit briefly in the custom rifle section of Phil Sharpe's, The Rifle in America. Although its an older reference and out of print its still a valuble addition to any gun reference library. In particular the 1947 and later editions which capture WW2 rifle production.
Regards,

Jim

Greg, Not a problem on my end I was just not sure If I had looked this one up or not. The Eric Johnson shop books are not set up to find barrels easily so I thought I would ask before looking.
Good luck in your search for more information.

JGaynor,
Thank you, I will look for a copy of Phil Sharpe's book. Anything with Eric Johnson info is of great interest to me!

Michael Petrov,
Thanks for understanding. I was paranoid that I had accidentally offended you! Last email you sent, you had found the names of the 7 03's Eric Built in 1935. I could not come up with a way to peg any of the names to the rifle at the time.

It occurred to me that if the rifle went to a shooting team, and if it was possible to get the names of the guys on the team, one of them might match up with the names you had found. Other than that, I am still stumped.

Michael, this is the mother of all long shots, and I can't remember if I asked you, is one of the names you found in Johnson's records regarding the 03's in 1935 Woolsey Caye from Louisville, Ky?

That is the guy who bought the Johnson Straight Pull serial #1 in 1933. The stock on the Straight Pull and the Springfield have some extreme similarities, enough that I have no doubt they were made by the same person. I have been in contact with Woolsey Caye's grandson trying to see what I could learn about the rifle and the man. I was told that he shot rimfire and centerfire at Perry in the 1930's. He passed away in 1943 of a heart attack. He was a WW1 veteran. His grandson bears his name, but he was not born until 1947.

If Caye's name is one of the one's in the records, I would be fairly confident he would have been the one with that rifle, even though there is no serial number proof. Having those near identical stocks would give him the same feel for both a rimfire and a centerfire. Sorta like having a Rem 40x in rimfire and centerfire.

Thanks!
Greg

Good luck in your search.

Jim

Yes, Rifle No. 162 December, 1935 "Woolsey, M. Caye 30/06 Spfld Louisville,KY"

Hope this is what you need.

Michael,
U N B E L I E V A B L E !!!!

Thank you Michael! Mother of all long shots indeed! This feels a little weird. I bought the Johnson Straight Pull about three years ago, it had come from an estate sale. I completed an extremely complicated trade to get the Springfield two or three months ago. That guy had bought it from a neighbor something like 25 years ago, he was not certain. This is the first time these rifles have been together in who knows how many decades. At least now I have a name to peg to the Springfield. I am floored that the same guy apparently owned both rifles. When I send you the pics of the two guns together, you will see what I mean about the stocks having some extremely similar features. I will post some pics here as well. Gotta catch the teenage boy who knows how to do this stuff.

Has anyone ever heard of Woolsey M. Caye from Louisville Kentucky before? Was he a shooter of any reputation?

Thanks for your help folks, I appreciate it. Michael, I will try to get an email out to you this weekend. Thank you again!

Greg

How do you ID an Eric Johnson barrel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EversonExhaust

How do you ID an Eric Johnson barrel?

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Howdy EversonExhaust,
Johnson used a couple of different stamps over the years. First, it will have Eric Johnson stamped on the top of the barrel. At some point in time, he changed the stamp to say Eric Johnson with five stars and the number 8. The 8 represents the number of grooves in the barrel. I have read that the stars were basically marketing, and that he always made every barrel the best he could. He used a couple of different numbers of grooves for a while, then settled on 8.

At some point in time, I do not know when, Johnson began putting serial numbers on the bottom of his barrels. He also stamped dates of manufacture. I don't know if the serial numbers and manufacture dates came at the same time, or if he did one for a while and then added the other. I have a Remington 37 that was owned by a shooter named Charlie Whipple, (who was supposed to have been quite good) when the barrel was set back, part of the original date was cut off so the barrel could be rechambered. The new date of the work was stamped on the bottom of the barrel.

According to Carl Johnson, Eric's son, and the fortunate folks with a copy of the records, they are voluminous. The rifles that came into the shop before he recorded serial numbers of those rifles, and before barrel serial numbers were used, would seem about impossible to look up who the original owner was.

I was lucky enough to get Johnson Straight Pull serial number 1. There are only 6 Straight Pulls. Five commercial ones, mine is serial number one of these, and the prototype, which is also serial number 1. When Carl Johnson gave me the phone number of the guy with the prototype straight pull, he did not tell me about that rifle. He just said this guy would be extremely interested in mine. The guys is super nice, and highly knowledgeable about Johnson rifles. He very happily told me he had Eric Johnson straight pull serial number one! I said, grab a chair buddy, 'cause I TOO have Johnson Straight Pull serial number one. "WHAT??!!!" It was an interesting conversation, neither one of us knew about the other rifle. We compared rifles, he had the advantage of having a copy of the shop records, and figured out a couple of small differences that indicated his was the prototype and mine was the first commercial one.

I told you that to tell you this, I got lucky in the extreme, in that it was a unique rifle, and this guy had found the info about it in the shop records. If it had been something besides the Straight Pull, I don't know how one would identify anyone who owned the rifle by the barrel.

Had I not known the name of the original buyer of the Straight Pull, Michael Petrov could not have found that the same guy owned the Springfield in this thread. I am still amazed by that!

Anyway, I could not have Id'd the Johnson barrels without help from a couple of nice folks with the Johnson shop records.

I was about to close, and realized I may have interpreted your question wrong. If by Id'ing a Johnson barrel, you meant the stamps, well, I covered that along with a lot you had not asked for!! Sorry to ramble on that!

Greg

Fascinating story, and I look forward to seeing pictures. I once owned a Marlin Ballard fitted with an Eric Johnson .22LR barrel, and you are correct that rifles with his touch are still highly sought after. As for your rifle no. 1403758, here is an extract of data from the SRS database showing rifles with adjacent serial numbers (Note that DATE is in MMDDYY format).


SERIAL TYPE DATE SOURCE
-----------------------------------------------------------
1403743 A1NM 011835 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403746 A1NM 091537 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403750 NM 082133 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403755 A1NM 112334 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403760 NM 041833 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403763 A1NM 110934 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1403765 A1NM 091537 DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
-----------------------------------------------------------

Cheers,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho

I had a 1922 M2 trainer, fitted with an Eric Johnson heavy barrel....sold it, like a fool...dang....

Thank you all for the interest and input! My son left his digital camera at my parents house, won't be able to get over there till the end of the week. I will try to get the camera and post some pics in a week or so.

Sorry!

Greg