Printable View
Hey everyone! I just acquired a 1955 lee enfield and as I was looking into it I noticed that it was for sure in 308 but the fun part is that the barrel is stamped 7.62 with the Canadian c and broad arrow. Could this have been a Canadian ranger lee enfield? I ll try to post pictures soon!
Phil
It reads like a DCRA target rifle conversion. The 7.62 conversions were never issued to the Rangers. Many were assembled with barrels surplused from CAL in the 1970's too. Pictures of the markings would confirm whether or not it was done at CAL.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
does this help?
Phil
Looks like a civilian conversion to me. The DCRA serial numbers are on the front right of the body and top of the bolt handle along with the tricorner maple leaf proof stamp.
Nope, like Brian says those were just .303. They had enough trouble keeping those running without adding scarce parts like the mags and ejectors. I had one myself back in the '70's that came from a DCRA shooter that had assembled it.Quote:
Originally Posted by samurighost
the bolt for sure has the tri maple leaf on the bolt head and on top of the bolt handle. the side I cant really see. im sending more photos.
Phil
---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------
[IMG]
[/IMG]
any idea?
Phil
---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Ahh I was wondering if that was the case. I just saw lots of c broad arrows so thats what made me though of it. are they worth anything or did I pay to much? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Phil
Looks like a legit DCRA conversion if the bolt is matching.The body number may be below the wood line. I’ve seen them like that.
Sure they are, specially if this one turns out legit. A standard #4 rifle now in Victoria seems to glean between $800 and $1400 CDN depending on things and these are harder to find. (If it's good)Quote:
Originally Posted by samurighost
Your rifle appears to be a DCRA.
Often the conversion serial number is under the wood line on the right side of the receiver ring. It should match the nymber on the top of the bolt handle arm.
There should also be a matching number on the right side of the knox form of the barrel
Gents,
Now I know I'm getting old, half deaf and my eyes dim, but I can't be the only one who has noticed that the photo of the muzzle does not show Canada's C broad arrow property mark stamped in front of the 7.62, but a very obvious C A.
I think you may be right. It does look more like C A then the C and broad arrow. But I also do know that a few of my long branches have bad stamping but I do know they are canadian. What would be the difference if it had the C A?Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
Phil
Yes that's right. Canadian Arsenals markings. That's the right era, C broad arrow was earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
The C ^ (C-Broad Arrow) was discontinued as an official marking in 1947.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
Just to add the the confusion the stamping under the bolt handle appears to me as M47/C which if I recall is for BSA Shirely and the sniper T's.
I could be incorrect but thats what my No.4 "T" has stamped on it
Well I don't think the rifle is a Long Branch any way so that could match.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
awesome! thank you all for the help! I got it on a whim but no regrets!
Phil
"Canadian Arsenals" and the standard marking for those barrels. The stylized maple leaf mark is usually near the Nock's Form, and on the bolt and receiver ring adjacent to the conversion number.
The full round knob suggests the bolt was replaced during FTR, but the problem is the serial number on the bolt should be electric-pencilled not stamped for a 1950s FTR or new-build rifle.
The markings on the butt socket, if any, were apparently ground off before whoever stamped in the "7.62"; it was done by some civilian owner.
Bolt and receiver markings match anyway. English gun changed over...
The rifle started life as a BSA Shirley or Faz Mk1. If the OP takes the barrelled action out of the woodwork & has a look at the draws we can tell tell which of the two. If they are asymmetrical in shape then it's a Faz; it they are symmetrical it's a BSA Shirley. There's an outside chance of an early Savage or perhaps a POF (though I must admit I don't know if POF made Mk1 rifles or Mk2's or both). Much more likely BSA or Faz. The FTR marks are IMHO also likely to be BSA. How & when it got to Canada I've no idea.......
As I understand it PoF manufactured MK1s on the BSA Machinery, shipped to them in 1955, and then later, when the Faz machinery was shipped to them they started Mk2 productionQuote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
Well that rules them out then!:madsmile:
I've seen three or four of these DCRA conversions built on Mk2 actions of the 1954-55 vintage. At least two of them had "Parker-Hale Birmingham" stamped in a small font on top of the receiver ring, so apparently PH were selling some such rifles in that period. It's also possible they were purchased in the UK by Bisley team members or even military personnel posted there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
In view of the A prefix serial number I'm wondering if this action is not a new build Mk2 that for some reason was marked as an FTR? I have the remains of a Faz Mk2 here that is marked FTR 1957 - why would a relatively new Mk2 be going through FTR in 1957 ?
Perhaps some new actions or rifles on hand in the factory being used to make up totals as part of an FTR program, thereby replacing rifles that didn't pass the receiver/body inspections?
NB: the photo cuts off the serial number; it is longer than "A12", but I don't feel like digging out the receiver to get the rest of it. ;)
Don't forget that BSA did a series of FTR's (including changing to Mk2 specifications) for non-UK military customers.
Edit to add : Info from Peter Laidler
The Mk1/2 and 1/3 mid 50's conversions completed at the BSA factory (NOT BSA rifles converted to 1/2 or 1/3 but any rifle converted to 1/2 and 1/3 in the mid 50's onwards by BSA) were not done to a UK Military contract. All UK Military - Ministry of Supply conversions were done at Fazakerley as this was the only remaining Government rifle factory and they wanted to keep it open. The BSA FTR's to Mk1/2 and 1/3 were done on contract, for other Governments or under the 'Crown Agents' scheme.
Very occasionally you could/would see a BSA - FTR X/XX when Ordnance stockpiles were mixed or pooled.
My DCRA is a 1955 Fazakerly mk2. It is stamped “Regulated by Fulton” along with the CA 7.62 stamps on the barrel no bayonet lugs and the Maple Leaf stamps on the top of the receiver and bolt handle.
It has sold out of service marks and I’m curious if Fulton’s sold it new “surplus”.
Interesting how it went from the UK to Canada. It was imported to the US in the late 90’s.
Most of the DCRA 7.62 rifles were privately owned rifles sent in for conversion by private DCRA/PRA (Provincial Rifle Assn.) members. All makes (except Enfield Trials [though there are a number listed merely as "Brit" No4]) and models (No4MkI, No4MkI*, No4MkI/2, No4MkI/3, No4Mk2, No4MkI(T)) extant in circa 1963 -1968 available as surplus are found.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Supposedly the first 100 conversions were done for the Military, but that is not borne out by the list of extant rifles on CGN - several rifles within the first 50 are listed as being "Brit FTR" marked.
I have seen a number built on Long Branch 1945, 1950, 1955, 1956 actions which have British/Savage/ earlier Long Branch serial numbers, original finish and no sign of previous serial being removed - these are generally replacement actions fitted to replace supplied actions which failed the inspection and were rejected for conversion. Many of the British/Savage actions observed are fitted with new Long Branch bolts - all of the bolts observed show hardness testing impressions at various places on the bolt bodies & bolt heads.
I had one of those Mk.2 F57 FTR ones, too, in .308. A15579.
My bolt is original Fazakerly serialized to the rifle, but it has a Long Branch bolt head. It also has the DCRA serial number stamped on it.
I've seen many DCRA rifles. The ones marked "Regulated by Fulton" started out as service rifles in the UK, were regulated by GE Fultons post service in the UK as target rifles in .303. Many eventually wound up in Canada, the owners carried or sent them to CAL for conversion to 7.62 for service rifle competition shooting. They were used primarily for Palma style shooting and were not supplied after conversion with 7.62 extractors or magazines. There were a select few, (the so-called factory specials), that were drilled and tapped for P-H bases, bedded with Bisonite and had 7.62 extractors and Enfield magazines installed but they were not the norm. Most DCRA conversions retained the original .303 extractor and magazine which worked fine for single shot extraction and as a loading platform for long range competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
That's what mine was. Those mags and extractors didn't surface here for years after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I'm guessing they also didn't have the milling cuts to the magazine well that made feeding reasonably reliable (as in bet-your-life-on-it reliable)
Not mine, just had a barrel change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
I had guessed that was the case with mine as it has sold out of service and Regulated by Fulton stamps from the UK. It made its way to Canada and got the DCRA treatment afterward, and finally was exported to the US in the 90’s.
It has a Sterling magazine that came with it which feeds and extracts fine.
The mag well mods were not done to DCRA conversions at CAL. I imported one of the trials L8T rifles several years ago from Australia and it didn't have the mods either. Later L8 service rifles and of course, L39, L42, No.4 7.62, Envoy and Enforcer conversions had the mods incorporated.