Inherited K98 - issues?

Hello, I've recently inherited several rifles from my Grandfather (see the 1903A3 thread here). I am new to this collecting thing and am wondering as to the condition of this K98. I know the bolt isn't supposed to be white....is re-blueing it something a qualified gunsmith could accomplish? And, eventually I might want to replace the stock.

Also, could someone educate me on what people are talking about with the "matching serial numbers"? The barrel and receiver appear to match, though the bolt components don't?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7fd584bd-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...40b4f0aa-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0618a07e-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...57aecc30-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...39b5bd8b-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...64f6756a-1.jpg

Thanks in advance! I can post more photos if needed.

What follows is a generalization, "what was usually done". Please, don't all write in eagerly listing the exceptions, that is just confusing for a beginner! I have a book of more than 400 pages on nothing else but the marking of German military firearms, so let's just keep it simple!

German military handguns and rifles were marked just about all over. In fact, looking at a complex piece like a Luger P08, you can say that German guns were marked on parts where other brands didn't even have parts!

There were precise regulations for the marking. Parts such as the barrel and the receiver were generally marked with the complete number. This was a four-figure number with a series letter in a cursive script. Obviously 4-figures, i.e. 1 to 9999 would soon be used up, so numbering continued with a 1a to a 9999 a, then 1b to 9999 b etc. And they got through the entire alphabet more once a year in times of peak production, so it is important to recognize that a number, even with letter, is not, in general, unique. Note your that rifle has 4701 d on barrel and receiver. So it is not the 4701th K98 ever, or even the 4701th of 1940, but the 44701th - and even that might be second or third time around. The bolt was also marked with the 4-figure number but not necessarily the letter. In your case, we see 3830s - and the bolt shroud has yet another number.
So your rifle would be viewed as a "mixmaster" - it may be perfectly OK as a shooter, but it is not what a collector wants.

Other parts were marked with (typically) the last two figures, for lack of space.

And the sizes and typefaces of lettering and numbering at various positions on the rifle were also regulated.

All this regulation means that a German rifle in its original configuration had numbers that matched. Obviously, collectors who want an all-original piece are very keen that those numbers match. And, so the world runs, if those numbers don't match, there are a lot of creative people out there doing something about it. Like replacing missing or damaged parts by others, and altering the numbers to fit. This is known as "forced matching". Some would call it faking.

In military use, if an already numbered part had to be used on a different firearm, the original numbers were not ground off, but were lined through, and the new number was applied next to the old, lined-out number. The corollary is that a ground-off number is a pretty good sign that the weapon has been falsified.

Although I have describe your rifle as a "mixmaster" - the usual term in this field - this does not mean that it is a bad rifle, just not longer in its original configuration.
Now take a look at the stock. This is a laminated stock, in good condition, and has been chequered. Material has been removed, so there is no way to undo the checkering.

Bearing all this in mind, it seems to me to be pointless to re-blue the bolt. You cannot make it original again, so save your money and enjoy it as it is. The important question now is: how does it shoot!

Patrick - WW1 practise was to line out and renumber, in WW2, the field depots often scrubbed and renumbered, but the fonts should still be WW2 and follow a known pattern, making fakery difficult.

I recently build a ZF41 repro and faked a lot of the parts on another forum to illustrate how it can be done. I should really cross-post it here. In my case, I left lots of evidence of the fakery below the woodline, but above the woodline it's not real easy to tell. I suggest anyone getting into collecting K98's to buy good books and do your homework!

ok, I cross posted the thread I was talking about to the restoration forum here:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....998#post267998

BC, I came across an Arisaka T99 with similar checkering. I sanded the checkering off using a hard rubber block to back up the sand paper. I started with some 100 grit and finished it off with 220 and 400. These old military stocks usually have ample wood anyway. The checkering is probably only .020 inch deep so you are really not taking much off. Finish it off with BLO and you will realy see that red glue laminate! Salt Flat

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Originally Posted by Claven2

Patrick - WW1 practise was to line out and renumber, in WW2, the field depots often scrubbed and renumbered...

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Thanks for the correction. My knowledge is admittedly concentrated on the real "old bangers"!

Thanks for all the replies! While having a "collectors" edition would be sweet, I didn't have to pay anything for this one and I don't ever plan on parting with it. Here is the link to a Enfield MkIII* I also inherited. If I could get it back to at least a "representative" appearance I'd be very happy even if all the numbers don't match. I've always been interested in WWII and this is like holding a little piece of history. Looking at it, I may be able to sand down the stock, there appears to be enough wood that it wouldn't look out of place if I remove the hash marks.

What is BLO?

Boiled linseed oil is one of the possible finishes to be applied to the wood work after sanding. You will have to go deep enough to avoid a darkness in the wood where the checkering was. Careful should work though. Then again, the nice clean shooter. And again, sling and bayonet...mag pouches, charger clips...

BC, When sanding try to keep all edges crisp--in other words a hard block backing the sandpaper will keep any sharp edges from being rounded over. Rounding off will happen if you just use your hand to back up the paper. The last time your stock was refinished, some of this rounding ocurred. Look at the clearance area around bolt handle for an example of this rounding. Sometimes you can square up some of the previous rounding using the hard block. Salt Flat

Boulder, why don`t you just leave it like it is. Your grandfather didn`t seem to have any problems with it & it looks fine.

Also worth pointing out, it's a rare barelled receiver. 660 steyr code from 1940 with no receiver sidewall roll stamp. Less than 150,000 made (a small number for Steyr) and a high attrition rate. No matter what you do with it, it's a niftily marked rifle.

If you really wanted to get rid of the checkering, you probably can by sanding it as mentioned but I have to second just leaving it alone. That is one nice looking rifle with the checkering and it wasn't done by some bubba, that looks professional.

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Originally Posted by BoulderChris

Looking at it, I may be able to sand down the stock

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NO !! UGH !! HORROR !! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Never, ever, sand a stock.:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

If it's varnished, you can remove that with the jelly-type paint stripper.
If it has dents, you can bring them up again with the steam-iron method.
But if you remove wood, it is gone for ever.
Sanding is the simplest way to permanently and irrevocably devalue the stock.

May I very seriously suggest (I'm being polite:) What I really mean is: insist!) that you search the forums and read up on the topic of refurbishing and restoring stocks before you do anything irreversible. That is what the forums are good for - to record and exchange information so that we don't all have to make the same mistakes and reinvent the wheel.

It seems there is no easier way bring out dissenting opinions than to discuss the "restoration" of these classic rifles! As for myself, I don't know what I'm going to do. It would be a lot easier decision to make if the hatching wasn't so pro. That said, I have a hard time looking at the hatching knowing the rifle as issued would have never had it and while the historical value is one thing, historical accuracy is another. I do agree that anything which removes material must be long considered before being attempted as it is irreversible. Again, though, this isn't a "collectors" rifle as it's not a matching s/n and I have no intentions of parting with it in the long run, anything I do is for my own gratification. Like I said, I don't know what I'm going to do with this rifle, and I don't plan on making up my mind anytime soon. I appreciate all the info and opinions though, I'm kicking myself for not starting these threads a long time ago!

Leave it alone. It is a "family" gun and stands on its own merits.

In general I would agree that stocks should not be sanded BUT the DAMAGE has ALREADY been done to this stock. All the varnish remover in Europe won't make it better than if you remove the checkering that is totally out of place on a German military rifle. OF course this is Boulder Chris's rifle so he should do what he likes with it. Salt Flat

I would leave only because Pappy liked it & it's none matching. Keep it for what it is, Pop Pop's sporterized K98. My 2c..

The K98 seems to be a Russian capture weapon, look for a "X' on receiver, the waffennapts have the swatiska pinged out..Keep it as is and enjoy it Mike

I'll check the receiver over, but I don't remember seeing anything on it before.

Not a RC Mauser at all. Perhaps a bring-back perhaps not. But a fun family keeper.

Hard to say what's best, because there is no right answer, except of course what is right for the owner. It's a nice rifle, and the chequering, while not supposed to be there, has at least been well done. It is NOT a "Russian Capture" rifle, as there are no electropencil marks on it, the stock has not been belt sanded and covered with orange shellack, and the Swastikas have not been peened. It is most likely a VBB, and my bet is it was missing its bolt. I have to refresh my memory by looking through Ball's book, but that is a CZ proofed bolt. Did the Czechs not make some contract Mausers in the '30's which had the bolts "in the white". Persian maybe? Or were those all straight handle? Can't recall.

It is what it is; a piece of family history, an early production German WWII K98k which has had its bolt replaced with a BRNO piece, and which has been lovingly chequered. I would assume it was used as a hunting rifle perhaps? I would leave it as it is myself. Looks nice, and probably shoots nicely, and would still make a nice bush gun.

Cheers

Ed

I am in agreement that it should be left alone with the possible exception of cold bluing the bolt - unless you like it shinny.
Anything you do to the rifle will cost you time and $$ and when you are done you will still have a mismatched rifle.
Sarge