Civil War Cavalry Officer saber.

Hello folks. I purchased a "lot" of bayonets from a guy that picked them up in a estate sale. He didn't know much about them. I didn't notice this at first that was in the lot, but after I got them home, realized I had a hidden gem. There is some condition issues. The leather is all but rotted away with just the wood showing, with reminance of leather pieces on it. The hand gaurd is missing the loop, and the pummel is loose. But, it is what it is. I am wondering if I should do some minor restoration as far as replacing the leather, as just something that wouldn't change it from original barn find condition. Maybe re-peen the pummel to tighten it back, so would that be a mistake? Or should I just leave it as is? Would anybody know what something like this in just slightly north of relic condition would be? I see values all over the place from a few hundred up to several grand? I "think" it is a model 1850, but looks more like an 1840 blade? The hand gaurd has nice scroll work and "US" in it. The blade doesn't have any graphics or at least any that is visible in this condition as I have seen some. It does have near the handle with a couple letters worn off, "Henry Boker, Soligen" on it. Henry Boker of Soligen German is known to have made swords for both the north & south during the civil war. And I have read somewhere that this maker is fairly rare? Any other info would be greatly appreciated. I would love some feedback on this barn find.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0519ee0a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1239996e-1.jpg

Nice piece but I'm afraid you won't be able to do just a little to it. It needs a great deal or nothing. You'd need to replace almost the whole back end if you started...and the blade's been hashed too. As you know the scabbard is in need also... I always liked those particular swords, they're a classic example of a real working blade. Most times they show hard or at least real use.

It has been beat up pretty good. The scabbard has a slight bend in it, which I have read isn't un-common due to being beat the death slapping against the horse in battle. I seen some in very nice condition sell pretty high, but this one isn't in that sort of condition obviously. It's been well used, and has substantial wear that is evident of being well used. But to be honest, I prefer them used, but I wish this one was a bit less beat up. It give it history and character IMHO. I probably won't do anything to it. I consider it just a bit north of "relic" condition, but at any condition, a cool history piece.

If you watch closely, you might find the guard on Ebay...that would bring it to fireplace display condition at least. Then you could re-do the peening of the pommel. But I think re-doing would be very costly...

Is there any chance you could backtrack to the estate sale and request some family history. A beat up saber with a story would be more desirable.

It was desecrated after it left the military, so not much history to that. I don't believe peening the pommel will cure it's ills, and just make it harder to restore should you find the parts you need.

Maybe an old wives tale, but they tell you in the British Military never to leave the sword in the scabbard for any length of time as it causes issues with the blade as they sweat, that was Wilkinson Sword Limited........maybe the same for this lovely piece. Left in a dark loft for years maybe??

Many swords have a lathe down each side of the scabbard to keep rattle to a minimum. Those would take damp and then rust the blade if not dried out. Next they'd stick to the blade and get pulled part way out, so the bearer would yank them right out. Now you'd have a rusty blade and rattly scabbard...yes, they need to be clean and dry.

I don't know about the blade, but the hand guard looks like it was made in China, or Mexico, very poor workmanship, about as crude as it gets.
I 'm not an expert on swords but I have owned many over the years, and I have collected Civil War weapons since the 60's.
I could be wrong, as I have been in the past, just going by your pic's. ;)

I think the guard was cut off by someone that intended to use this for clearing the sweet pea plants in the garden. Something like that. The guards are made of brass in some patterns and this is one...if you examine the originals, you see it's spot on...except for being butchered.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I think the guard was cut off by someone that intended to use this for clearing the sweet pea plants in the garden. Something like that. The guards are made of brass in some patterns and this is one...if you examine the originals, you see it's spot on...except for being butchered.

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I think the guy that knew little about bayonets prob. knew more then Tudorp did, IMO the guy put the really bad fake hand guard on a real blade in hopes that someone would come along and think this guy does not know what he has, it happens all the time, it has happened to me more then once,.... again I'm going by the pic's. JMHO ;)

I don't know...I think it's just a really mistreated blade. Don't think anything's been faked. A repro might make sense if you're making it beautiful, but there isn't anything left here in good shape. I doubt the guard would be good enough to pilfer from this old brute.

By the way, where have you found reproduction replacement guards?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I don't know...I think it's just a really mistreated blade. Don't think anything's been faked. A repro might make sense if you're making it beautiful, but there isn't anything left here in good shape. I doubt the guard would be good enough to pilfer from this old brute.

By the way, where have you found reproduction replacement guards?

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You can find repo. swords of all kinds on the internet for less then $100, some look good and some look really bad, some are used just for parts, repo. antique guns the same thing, I see them sometimes at antique gun shows.
aging these parts is not hard at all.
I may be wrong on that hand guard :dunno:, It's just my opinion from what I see in the pic's.
if I am wrong, Then I apologize to Tudorp ;).

I see...

Show where the pommel was peened. Shouldn't be hard to tell if it is the original peening.

Sorry, hadn't been on in a week or so. The handle to the gaurd is broke. Took some real good pics and sent them to a civil war sword guy. He said it does appear real, but in pretty bad condition. The Hilt of course is not really repairable. The blade is in bad shape with rust, but the very tip is also gone. He said it wouldn't hurt to restore it to a presentation wall hanger, but too much of it is gone to appeal to a collector. Which is fine, I did some restoration on the leather handle. All the leather and cording was rotted away, and only the brass twine, pommel and whats left of the hilt. Here is what I did with new leather, cord, using the original brass twine wrap. Kinda reverse engineered what was left and put it back the way it originally was made, which was pretty cool, and fun really. I need to re-peen the pommel though, then it will go on the wall. As far as the "deal", Im not butthurt over it, because I go a good deal on the handful of bayonets, so the money is there. This was just "bonus", and a pretty cool wall hanger.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...412b27ef-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4cf75b0d-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tudorp

He said it does appear real

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I was sure it was. You realize you currently have the guard on upside down? The broken off guard goes at the bottom. (Refer to the original pics) You could probably return the remaining piece to better shape too, it's brass. Just do it carefully and slowly...then peen the pommel. The handle looks way better now though.

Ops, I see that. Lol. Good thing I hadnt peened it yet. Lol

Good...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I was sure it was. You realize you currently have the guard on upside down? The broken off guard goes at the bottom. (Refer to the original pics)

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You mean back to front, not upside down? The guard is now facing backwards!

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Originally Posted by armourer

The guard is now facing backwards!

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No, he has it exactly upside down. He needs to take it off and turn it over. To turn it backwards would have the funnel shape to the front. The guard is only half there anyway. Can't imagine what guard you've been looking at. Out of the hundreds of guys that looked at this, you're the only one to notice?

Actually, It was just slapped back together when I took that picture. The pummel wasn't peened back on yet, so easy flip which was done shortly after it was noticed. I would have made sure anyway before the pommel is peened. Easy mistake since that gaurd is broken off anyway. ;) . But no worries, it has been corrected.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0519ee0a-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

No, he has it exactly upside down. He needs to take it off and turn it over. To turn it backwards would have the funnel shape to the front. The guard is only half there anyway. Can't imagine what guard you've been looking at. Out of the hundreds of guys that looked at this, you're the only one to notice?

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It is, or rather was, back to front!

The broken (missing) piece of the guard would have had a little hook on it that would have located in a little squared hole in the pommel (where the grip and the pommel meet). The round ball shaped fiinial sweeps down and is to the rear. In similar style to that shown here, though this is of course, a different pattern sabre.

Attachment 58453

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Originally Posted by armourer

back to front!

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Nope.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Nope.

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This a replica, though not a particularly good picture of the type of hit as it would have looked.

I know...