Looking for an opinion on a '97 Trench Gun

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06-01-2009, 01:05 AM
Missing Something

Looking for an opinion on a '97 Trench Gun

I have been reading some other threads re: Winchester Model 1897 Trench Guns.....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_11781-1.jpg

I have one marked Omaha Police Dept. The more I read the more I think this one was put together. I would welcome any opinions....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_11791-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_11801-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1181-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1182-1.jpg

Barrel looks to have had the original front site cut off and soldiered:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1183-1.jpg

The only other marking on it is a "61" on the trigger guard.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1184-1.jpg
06-01-2009, 09:47 PM
Missing Something

Here are a few more pictures... Is there anything else you need or would like to see photos of?

Underside of barrel near muzzle:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_12571-1.jpg

Markings near breach on underside (L to R = 1 in triangle, VP in oval, W or M in Circle):

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_12591-1.jpg

Underside of barrel near the end of the mag tube:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_12631-1.jpg
06-02-2009, 02:46 AM
Steve Preston

Looks like you have a Commercial Trench Gun, made in the 1930's for Civilian and police use. The police markings on the barrel are most likely authentic, and the absence of any Military markings support that it was a civilian gun. It has a left over WW1 vintage handguard, evident by the "Pat Appl For" markings on it, which is common for a gun of this vintage.

It looks like an honest Trench Gun with even wear on it, but not a military issue gun so the value is much less than if it had a nice "U.S." on it :)

Hope that helps you out.

Steve
06-02-2009, 06:49 AM
Missing Something

Thanks Steve. I appreciate the "2 cents" :)
06-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Tom Doniphon

Do the commercial M97 trench guns have the two notches on the barrel for the barrel/mag tube band screws? I don't think any of my Military M97 trench guns do. Maybe someone with a commercial trench gun knows for sure.

And the notches on the barrrel for the bayonet adaptor don't look 70 years old to me.
06-02-2009, 09:32 PM
Sgt Rock

Dated Barrel

A commercial gun in that serial range will most likely have a 2-digit date on the barrel, right above the mag tube close to the receiver.
06-02-2009, 10:29 PM
Missing Something

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt Rock

A commercial gun in that serial range will most likely have a 2-digit date on the barrel, right above the mag tube close to the receiver.

Nothing else on the barrel but what I showed in the pictures.... no date :thdown:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MG_12591-1.jpg
06-04-2009, 09:05 PM
James B.

Looks like a later vintage riot barrel to me. The mag band 'pinch' marks and filled in sight bead hole are evidence thereof. Looks like the barrel protrudes a little far past the end of the handguard assy. also.
James B.
06-04-2009, 11:03 PM
Missing Something

Thanks... I figured that it maybe a put together somewhere along the line....

The parts look original though....
06-05-2009, 10:23 AM
John Cook

Date of Model "97

Tom D. gave me info several weeks back on how to find date of mfg. I looked for months until he advised. Get a very good flashlight and look between the magazine tube and barrel where it connects to the receiver. It may have some dirt or crud in the gap , so shoot a little WD 40 through that area and wipe clean. I found my date of 42 ( ref to 1942). Mine is 20" cyl bore nothing to indicate it ever had a bayonet mounted. Will try to get a few photo's for the board to critique.

john in SC :wave:
06-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Missing Something

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cook

Tom D. gave me info several weeks back on how to find date of mfg. I looked for months until he advised. Get a very good flashlight and look between the magazine tube and barrel where it connects to the receiver. It may have some dirt or crud in the gap , so shoot a little WD 40 through that area and wipe clean. I found my date of 42 ( ref to 1942). Mine is 20" cyl bore nothing to indicate it ever had a bayonet mounted. Will try to get a few photo's for the board to critique.

john in SC :wave:

Thanks John... I checked... Can't see anything at all.....
06-05-2009, 03:35 PM
John Cook

Missing Something :

Not pushing the point, but look again. The date should be on top of magazine right under the barrel. It was very difficult to find on my weapon. I guess I looked for it about 45 minutes. I had to hold the light at differnt angles. I also cut the lights out in my shop and the darkness helped me focus on that area. Since I found my date I have looked at two other "97s and found the date for their owners.
Info. I have,according to your serial nbr., indicates a possible build date between 1940-1941. Hope you find it.

john
06-05-2009, 05:24 PM
Missing Something

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cook

Missing Something :

Not pushing the point, but look again. The date should be on top of magazine right under the barrel. It was very difficult to find on my weapon. I guess I looked for it about 45 minutes. I had to hold the light at different angles. I also cut the lights out in my shop and the darkness helped me focus on that area. Since I found my date I have looked at two other "97s and found the date for their owners.
Info. I have,according to your serial nbr., indicates a possible build date between 1940-1941. Hope you find it.

john

OK.... I pulled everything apart and cleaned the area....I did what you suggested.... (and after holding my tongue just right) from what I can tell there is a 4 over a 0 (4 being closest to the muzzle end). Thanks for the help and patience :thup:

Craig