Mosin Nagant M44 - "Sticky Bolt" Syndrome

Hi guys.
I'm pretty unexperienced in guns though I already learned a whole lot of stuff around here.
I'm now about to get my first rifle (M44 Mosin Nagant Carbine) which is pretty hard to come by here in germany.
As I already said I learned quite a bit but there still remain some questions in my mind: I read a lot about the so called "sticky bolt" and I just don't get it.
1. What exactly is a "sticky bolt"?
2. Is it really a problem that often occurs?
3. What can I do to avoid a "sticky bolt" ?
The problem is that I can only get information from english written sites so I sometimes don't understand everything.
Is there anyone who can explain that problem to me in easier words?
It would be perfect if someone who speaks german could give it a try but I'll appreciate any help.
Thanks a lot and please excuse me for spelling and synthax errors and my overall bad english !

Often on Mosin-Nagant rifles the bolt can be difficult to open after firing. Some say this is due to ammo that has steel cases coated with lacquer. Others have said this condition can be improved by good cleaning of the chamber, some rifles may have years of old dried grease built up in the chamber. Use bore cleaner and a .50 caliber / 12.7mm brush to clean the chamber really well.
Hope this helps.

Terry

Ah ok... Now i get it !
Thanks a lot !
Now I know what the whole problem is about and what I can do against it.

Your English seems pretty good to me.
With those carbines, be prepared for a long muzzle flash and firm recoil.
Enjoy

Thanks.
I have heard about the recoil. I'm a pretty chunky guy so I'll handle it. I saw a girl on youtube that knocked out herself with the scope of a mosin. But thanks anyway ! If anybody should have some other important things that I should know about a mosin please let me know !
Kind regards and have a nice rest-weekend !

Hold the rifle properly and you'll be fine. If the butt plate is on bone instead of muscle, it's going to sting.

Thanks. I'll keep it in mind.
The Mosin is my first real rifle so I'm gonna be very careful with it and I want to know everything that I have to know.
I already learned a lot in here, so thank you guys !

Hey guys!
I have another question.
I found out that I can pretty much choose between a M44 Mosin Nagant and a Kar98 Mod. 44.
Both are about the same condition except for the fact that the Kar98 has a new barrel.
Which one would you choose, are there any advantages that one of them has towards the other one?
Thanks for your help,
and greetings from Germany !

Wenn beide in gutem Zustand sind und der Preis passt, Probeschießen vorrausgesetzt, würde ich beide nehmen. Mit selbstgeladenen Patronen und eine bischen Know How, sind beide zum Sportschießen geeignet.

Grüße

Gunner

They both would have matching numbers but the mosin is marked 'as new' and the Kar98 is marked 'almost as good as new'.
Kar 149€
Mosin 159€
The seller claims in both cases that they would be highly accurate and well kept.
@Gunner: Am know how arbeite ich gerade, Selbstladen werde ich wohl erst später in Betracht ziehen weil mir dafür definitiv das Wissen fehlt. Aber wenn man sich mal die Preise für die 7,62x54R anguckt, führt wohl kein Weg am Selbstladen vorbei....
BTW: I didn't know that rifles with matching numbers can be that cheap though they are obviously in good condition....

Der Preis für den Nagant ist in Ordnung aber der Preis für den K98 scheint mir etwas sehr günstig zu sein. Da ich aber nicht weiß, warum der Besitzer ihn so günstig verkauft kann es auch ein wirklich guter Fang sein. Du solltest aber nach möglichkeit schauen ob BRD Beschußstempel vorhanden sind sonst wirds blöd mit dem Eintrag.

Viel Glück

Gunner

To all : Excuse me for writing in german. I know that this is ungracious but it goes faster.

Propably because its one of the 'la coruna' models made in '49. I have already seen quite a few Kar98s that cost less than 200€... Even the 'regular' german models.They're all used but were mostly in good shape.
Could also be a little cheaper because it's used and it has very slight traces of use.
@Gunner: Ein Bekannter von mir wird das Gewehr kaufen und auf sich eintragen. Was müsste ich alles tun um selbst die Berechtigung solche Langwaffen besitzen zu dürfen bekommen?

Du mußt mindestens ein Jahr Mitglied in einem Schützenverein sein der auch Großkaliber schießt, regelmäßig d.h. 12 mal im Jahr zum Training anwesend sein. Einen Schießnachweis führen, Waffen- und Munitionssachkundeprüfung ablegen und dann je nach gusto die gelbe oder die grüne WBK beantragen. Ach ja, das Alter muß passens sein und einen " Idiotentest " muß man glaube ich jetzt auch noch machen. Braucht Geduld lohnt sich aber.

Grüße

Gunner

Ja klar. es steht fest das ich das mache. Dauert halt nur recht lang, aber es gibt da ja Lösungen damit auch jetzt schon in den Genuss komme.
Das mit dem Idiotentest hab auch gehört. Alles nur weil ein kleiner Junge dämlich wie Toastbrot war.
Bin 22 also sollte das Alter kein Problem werden. Der remscheider Schützenverein schießt nur die .22 also werde ich da auch nach nem anderen Verein umsehen müssen. Weißt du was beantragen usw alles in allem so ungefähr kosten und wo liegt der Unterschied zwischen der gleben und grünen WBK ?
Wirklich vielen dank für deine Hilfe !
Schöne Grüße !

Hallo PP,

schau doch mal auf der Website BDMP.de nach, dort gibt es vielleicht auch eine SLG ( Schießleistungsgruppe ) in Deiner nähe. Das ist ein echt guter Verband für`s Großkaliberschießen mit wirklich guten Disziplinen. Die gelbe WBK reicht wenn Du nur ein- oder mehrschüssige Repetiergewehre oder Schrotflinten haben willst, die grüne ist auch für Kurz- und halbautomatische Langwaffen. Tja, die Kosten, mmhhh? Die aktuellen Preise kann ich Dir leider nicht nennen, da ich schon länger schieße. Aber ich denke mal betrachtet man das ganze unter (T)€uro werden wohl ca. 300,- angebracht sein?!

Grüße

Gunner

Ok, wirklich vielen dank schonmal !
Da gibt es wirklich einige Slgs in meiner Nähe ! Damit hat sich die Suche nach einem Schützenverein auch erledigt, dankeschön !
Also würde die gelbe WBK für ein Mosin reichen, aber ich bräuchte die grüne wenn ich mir sagen wir ein Garand oder nen M1 holen wollte, ja?
300 € sind schon heftig aber das ist es mir dann doch definitiv wert.
Nochmals vielen dank für deine Hilfe und schöne Grüße !

Gern geschehen !

Grüße

Gunner

Keep in mind ALL Mosin surplus ammo is corrosive and is typically not very accurate. So be sure to clean the chamber and bore after each use so corrosion does not set in.

Already heard about that but thanks !
Is there really ONLY corrosive ammo ?
I wonder that there's no company producing new ones...
Regards!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PrivatePaula

Ok, wirklich vielen dank schonmal !
Da gibt es wirklich einige Slgs in meiner Nähe ! Damit hat sich die Suche nach einem Schützenverein auch erledigt, dankeschön !
Also würde die gelbe WBK für ein Mosin reichen, aber ich bräuchte die grüne wenn ich mir sagen wir ein Garand oder nen M1 holen wollte, ja?
300 € sind schon heftig aber das ist es mir dann doch definitiv wert.
Nochmals vielen dank für deine Hilfe und schöne Grüße !

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Just thought I'd try Babelfish for a translation. Fun website...

"Ok one, really thank you already times! There there are really some Slgs in my proximity! Thus the search for a contactor association also took care of itself, thank-beautifully! Thus did the yellow WBK become for a Mosin is enough, but I bräuchte the green if I said themselves we a and or nen M1 to get wanted? 300 € is already violently however that is then nevertheless definitely worth it me. Again thank you for your assistance and kind regards!"

I love my Mosin M44. Here in Canada recently there's been good supply of milsurp corrosive ammo. Accurate enough for me; iron sight at 100 yards, with a carbine, I wouldn't want to try for something much farther. We find some commercial ammo (brass case, boxer primer) once in a while, but it's expensive. I do reload for it sometimes (not recently since I got about 1,000 rounds of milsurp ammo so...)

Lou

Hi Lou,
You made some efforts to understand our post, thats pretty fine.
Last wednesday a good friend bought an good looking M 39 and it shots very good with a selfloadet ammo and 200grs bullets. The grouping was a little larger than 2" at 100 metres. I have to think about.........

Regards

Gunner

Sorry for writing in german. It's just faster because my english isn't perfect as you all might see....
But I think the translator worked... At least you get what I meant.
I just wonder that there are no new produced bullets.
If they wouldn't be too expensive many people would buy 'em.
But it's not too bad that I'll have to clean my Mosin after each shooting because bullets for it cost about 1 € over here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PrivatePaula

Already heard about that but thanks !
Is there really ONLY corrosive ammo ?
I wonder that there's no company producing new ones...
Regards!

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Winchester makes it. I'm pretty sure Prvi Partizan does.:dunno:

No worries guys, just thought I would help myself - and others - try to get a few details about the conversation.

I do not know how easy it is to reload ammunition in Germany. i know that here in Canada, it is almost the only way to go for many military surplus rifles. Even the venerable .303 British is too expensive for factory ammunition, more than $1 per round. That's a lot. So I learned to reload and I am quite happy. If the same thing happens I will do the same for the 7.62x54r. Bottom line, for me availability of factory ammo is not a reason to stay away from a rifle I like, but I understand that in other places on the planet the situation may be different!

Lou

The bullets are available but they are pretty expensive (more than 1 € per round)...
I don't know anything about reloading so I'll have to buy ammo...
Maybe I'll learn to reload later.
Regards and thank you all for your effort !!!

Hi PP,

Lou got right, the only reason to stay away from buying a rifle is the way of condition it has. The actual prices for the ammo from S&B is between 0.57€ and 0.62€ per round with 180grs. bullet. For reloading you have to buy cases ca. 0,62€ ,the bullet 180grs 0.27€, BR-primer ca. 0.04€ and powder ca 0.18€.
So you have to pay for the first reloadet round ( without buying the equipment ) ca. 1.11€. At the moment the fabricammo is cheaper but you can get better groups by the reloadet ammo and the oftener you use the cases the cheaper it gets.

Regards,

Gunner

To Lou : I am happy that you made the effort to translate our post.
I dont know if you have the possibility to buy ammo abroad? So if, look at hunting-sport he sells the .303 rounds with a 174grs. bullet for 515€ per 1000 so this is ca. 0,83$ per round without shipping from Luxembourg. He`s a good seller without any problems.

Regards,

Gunner

Thank you once again !
I'll stay with the S&L bullets... I don't wanna kill myself with wrong-reloaded bullets. Maybe someone will teach me relaoding later.
regards...

You`re welcome. Für Fragen stehe ich Dir gerne zur Verfügung ! ( For questions I am to you gladly at the disposal ):wave:

PrivatePaula, if you find the Mosin Nagant bolt action sticky in general, take a look at this article http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ines/index.asp

If decide to try the modifications, I recommend that you modify a replacement sear and spring, and keep your original parts unmodified.

thank you !
I don't have my rifle yet (it's a little more complicated to get firearms in Germany).
I just heard about the "sticky bolt" and I didn't understand what the problem was.
If I should feel that the bolt action is generally sticky I'll follow your instructions.
Regards !

Once you have the rifle, feel free to provide us with a range report when you try it :)

I will... and I'll post some pics of it too.
Thanks again for your help!

Does anyone have a tip for removing a jammed shell from a Nagant M1891? I have never had this issue before, a bit of sticky bolt sometimes but this one cartridge is stuck in the chamber and I can't open the bolt. I was hoping someone might know a trick to get it out, cause I have tried just to muscle the bolt open but to no success.

The obvious question PP . . . why not buy them both, and have a good start toward a WWII collection?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schwehn

Does anyone have a tip for removing a jammed shell from a Nagant M1891? I have never had this issue before, a bit of sticky bolt sometimes but this one cartridge is stuck in the chamber and I can't open the bolt. I was hoping someone might know a trick to get it out, cause I have tried just to muscle the bolt open but to no success.

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If the bolt HANDLE won't move at all then you do have dramas.

First drop a cleaning rod down the bore to ENSURE its not somehow still loaded!

1. If it will move a wee bit, spray penetrating oil down the muzzle and let soak a day or two.(Might be best to remove the stock first.) Apply some lube to the cam above the chamber and where ever else you like. Then tap on the underside of the handle w/ a large plastic or lead deadblow hammer. Not too hard just a bit. If nothing, mount the assembly in a vise and repeat w/ increasing force. Eventually, something will give. Fortunately, its extremely unlikely that you will damage anthing major (or expensive).

Note: Be prepared to break your extractor! Either it or the case will fail if the fired case won't budge.

If the case didn't come out when the bolt opens, you'll have to drive it out from the muzzle. Really, really don't try this w/ a stuck loaded round! Aside from the danger it tends to stick things together worse.


2. If the bolt handle won't move at all before you start, don't start the above process w/o eliminating other variables first! And don't expect happy things.

HTH

Hey, secret organizer of threads! This might go best in the Soviet weapons forum. Delete this post if you want, or I'll do it later.

gunner, we have a special "explosives" branch in Canada, that has taken it upon itself to enforce the letter of the law. Most surplus ammunition and many commercial loadings are only allowed into the country, after much red tape and expensive testing, not to mention, a complete list of all the componenents and their coumpound make up.
Hand loading cartridges from Privi or S&B, is a good way to go. It's usually cheaper, to buy the first round loaded, then hand load the cases thereafter. Buying bullets, powder and primers in bulk, can be cheaper but not always. Cases, if not loaded to maximum pressures, will virtually last forever. I have cases with over 40 reloads on them. Again, moderation at the powder measure is the key. Usually, the lighter loads, are more accurate anyway.
It is pretty easy to figure out how many reloads it will take to pay for your set up. You may also have space limitation issues but there are some novel and innovative ways around that as well. In the end, if you are happy, shooting 20 rounds a month, getting into hand loading is not really worth it. Usually, there is someone around, that will load for you. Don't forget about cast bullets, they can be a very cheap alternative.
One other thing to consider, in Europe, Berdan primers are readily available and relatively cheap. In Canada, they are like finding hens teeth and very expensive. With the availability of Berdan primers, even the steel cased stuff, can be reloaded. Don't forget about cast lead bullets either. They can provide a much cheaper alternative and are very friendly to your rifles.

It is the ammo as said before. The gun gets hotter with each shot and the lacquer melts then sticks in the chamber. I had this problem. I switched to brass ammo and had no problems for hundreds of shots. DO NOT USE THE AMMO IN THE GREEN LACUER STEEL CASE AND YOU WILL BE FINE!!! ENJOY

Ah, yes the Mosin M-44 rifle. I have one that I enjoy very much. I refinished the stock and cleaned it up as required. It turned out quite marvelous. I suggest a rubber buttpad available from several U.S. gun people. They cost about $15.00 bucks or so. They screw right on using the original screws etc. I think they will sell these out of country. Try a website called combathunting.com for Mosin Accesories. Hey, your English and spelling are far better than most of us and hell were residents!! I spent a year and a half in Butzbach, Germany from Aug. 69, till Dec. 70. The U.S. Army required my services. LOL. Good luck with your Mosin.Oh, don't forget to tuck it in tight before trigger pull. It's ok, it's a good hurt!!