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We don't go to the theaters too much because my wife has a little hearing loss in one ear that makes discerning dialog a little hard. We've assembled a home theater that keeps us from feeling like we are missing all that much.
Well, anyway, having read a book or two on the subject, I feel like this was an excellent reading of the story in movie form. But for movies like this, the principles conveyed would be lost by some who aren't readers.
Bob
I didn't read the books but saw the movie. I conclude the movie is part factual and part fictional. Did your books corroborate the movie's statement that 15 attempt were made on Hitler's life?
15 attempts, huh? Wait 'till I get my time machine working.
jn
According to accounts I've read, that's the accepted number of reported attempts. HERE is one online list which puts it at more like 18.
Bob
One point of interest is the bomb used by Von Stauffenberg was provided by the American OSS. It is theorized that Von Stauffenberg and his fellow conspirators who met at a Catholic Bible Study session, used the Church to contact the OSS. Both Donovan (head of the OSS) and Dulles (staton chief in Switzerland) were Catholic. Priests could travel between Germany and Switzerland.
The coup group in this case was a stem of Admiral Canaris' Abwehr German Intelligence Group, who used pastor Dietrich Bonnhoeffer as their liason between themselves and British Foreign Minister Anthony Eden via Church of England Bishop (and member of the House of Lords) George Bell. Bonnhoeffer was arrested a year before the Valkyrie plot, was imprisoned for the rest of the war, and died by hanging like the rest of the conspirators. But contact had been made and was continued.
Sadly, those in Allied intelligence who were involved with this resistance effort admitted absolute perfidity in the matter: They encouraged the resistance but when the members were on the run and needing shelter, they simply washed their hands and turned their backs, leaving the German officers to be rounded up and executed. Their feeling was that it was a win-win: If the plots succeeded, Hitler was dead. If they failed, lots of German officers were killed, Germany was left short of some of its best officers, and Hitler wasted lots of time trying to find the resistance members.
Bob
It might also be argued that the various "plots" helped to shorten the European War. Hitler and his Nazis were kept busy "chasing their tails" and preventing them from focusing on larger issues such as the Normandy Invasion, and other various Operations (Anvil and Dragoon) during that time period. Also, Nazi work on "superweapons" (such as the Nazi version of the Atomic Bomb) was curtailed enough to prevent their eventual use.
Î `ve seen a history report on the screen. And they said that Hitler was only
a few Kilogramms of atomic equipment away from making a atomic bomb. They said when the war lasts only a few months longer he were able to use this bomb against the UK. Hitler had lost the war in winter 1942/1943 and in the" Kriegstagebücher des OKW der Wehrmacht "( a diary ) you can read the
Wehrmacht had enormous problems with all kinds of supply`s. So the unfortunately useless death of the courageous german officers had no influence on the end of war. That`s my opinion.
Regards,
Gunner
I believe the bomb materials, at least the one which was planted on Hitler's plane, and failed to explode, were from captured british SAS material.
Some of the reported attempts on Hitler's life were hopelessly inept, and never had a chance of success. Von Stauffenberg's was at least well planned, but he surely could have used a better bomb.
From what I have read, they were not even close to producing a usable atomic weapon, in part due to the fact that they chose "heavy water" as the moderating medium, where we chose a much more convenient graphite medium.
One account claims that deception helped influence this decision.
Of course it helped that we received intelligence about the heavy water work at Telemark, Norway, and a group of British-trained Norwegian commandos bombed the heavy water plant, bringing production to a temporary halt and increasing security in the area. The result was a series of bomber raids that convinced the Germans to abandon the plant. In 1944, they attempted to move the plant's stored output of heavy water to Germany by train. A Norwegian agent then bombed the train ferry carrying the entire product of the plant, sending it to the bottom of a deep fjord and ending the program.
Bob
More HERE.
I think you are right, Gunner. It did, however, show the world that there were men of character within Germany who were willing to make great sacrifices to try.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner
Bob
No point in watching the movie, I already knew the plot and the ending:lol:
Hollywood is certainly running out of ideas. Either that or someone discovered this storeroom with a load of neat uniforms they hadn't used for a while.;)
Not to mention I really don't like Tom Cruise and his whacky religion.;)
Hi Bob,
the rest of heavy water they brought from norway to germany was found in a former mine near the Bodensee in southern bavaria. The german engineers had a lab there. A physicist said there was only around 700 litres to few to build the bomb. So the norwegian agent did a good job. Nice to have contact to an also in history interested person.
Best regards,
Gunner
Thanks for that information! I'd heard all kinds of stories about it - that they we nowhere near, that they were right on the edge being able to proceed. The best I had been able to put together was that the Norwegian ferry raid was what saved us from having to deal with a nuclear equipped Nazi government. You've confirmed that. Thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner
Bob
Amen to everything said by John!!Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sukey
The Japs were also working towards a nuclear bomb. I remember seeing a picture of a cyclotron being dumped into Tokyo bay in 1945. I wonder if they would be apologizing to US now had their side won????? (woops, thats another thread)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack
The Haukelieder and the Norstogs were one family that kind of split up around 1870 or so. The Haukelieder stayed at Haukelea and the Norstogs move to Norstog. Well, my cousin Knut Haukelid was a subsistence hunter in the '30s. When the war came, he and his friends hooked up with the British and got some training at a castle in Scotland.
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They were taken back to Norway and went to ground, living in alpine huts and snow caves and eating what they could kill. Knut led the attack on the power plant where the Germans were making heavy water. The Germans rebuilt the plant and put a full battalion in to guard it. There wAS NOT GOING TO BE A REPEAT of the previous successful attack.
The Germans had to move the heavy water out in drums, by truck. The route included a ferry ride. The British thought the best thing was to blow the ferry, so they sent out the directions and materiel. Knut was the man who set up the operation.
I guess the heavy water is still down there at the bottom. Knut always regretted the innocent Norwegians he killed in the operation. He was haunted by the blood he shed in the war, especially that operation.
jn
Wow, it is fun to close a loop like this. There have been all kinds of spurious reports that the drums sunk on the ferry were simply decoys, etc. I read a report on a 2005 expedition that raised a barrel of that heavy water and, by checking its concentration against German records, found that it was, indeed, the heavy water from the Vemork plant.
Bob
Hi Bob,
saw the report on History Channel they also said it is the heavy water.
Hi Jon,
Great story. You can be proud of this family member. He has done a great job under extrem dangerous conditions.
Regards,
Gunner
Saw the movie last night. I'm glad I didn't spend the money at the theater. I kinda knew that Tom Cruz was going to stink and he did. In fact, I didn't see any good acting. Not one memorable actor at all.