Here's an interesting barrel that's currently being offered on one of the internet auctions. Follow the link.
Interesting Early Barrel
Any Comments?
J.B.
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Here's an interesting barrel that's currently being offered on one of the internet auctions. Follow the link.
Interesting Early Barrel
Any Comments?
J.B.
Un-beknown to the 'Seller" he has solved the mystery of of why "low number" 1903 receivers infrequently "blow up". The lack of an "experienced eye" when encountering a "sqeezed or pinched" barrel near the chamber can indeed lead to castrophy! :yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard
What else did I miss JB or are you gonna tell us peons? :)
Wrong font on "A" (could be a dent), (can't see "S" clearly), wrong font on "5", "0" should be almost round, and Ord Esc is very obviously problematic. Don't have enough info to verify SLC, but it appears to me that someone has a roll stamping machine and the nerve to fake an 05 barrel. You can see the file mark at the rear of the front sight rib.
Every 05 barrel I have seen has a very smooth finish over the entire length of the barrel, and this one is just too rough.
It is a fake. Good eye, John.
Squashed barrel for over $300? Rare? BS! Most I have paid for an 05 BBL was $150 and it looked like it was new inside and out.
Jim
The "WL 14" Steel Lot Code (SLC) dates from 8-17 at Springfield Armory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
J.B.
My 05 barrel is so worn I can hardly see anything in fine detail. This barrel in question appears new in comparison. My Ord Bomb has a flame the barely reaches to the bottom of the "S". The barrel in question has a flame half way up the "S". My "A" is indeed different. My barrel is VERY smooth as someone took time and effort to make a very lovely, smooth barrel. The barrel is question is a fake, a very disturbing fake. Good eye, John.
Hey J.B.,
Have an opened bottle of Hoppe's on the bench now. Feel much better.
Broke down my '03 with the '05 barrel. The barrel has these markings: S A. over a flaming shell and that pesky "A" underneath.
Nothing else but a cluster of four marks about ten inches back of the muzzle. Maybe a seven next to a gothic "A" and two hieroglyphs. All a sixteenth tall or less. Front fixed sight base has a pin in the top front and the tenth inch or more slot at the bottom rear. A modified once mounted rod bayonet barrel per your's and Nick's '03 mod book.
The barrel offered for sale is obviously a bomb waiting to go off if someone loopy on Hoppe's bought it, mounted it and shot it. It certainly is not to be used.
Your interest must be about the barrel code starting with the serifed "W".
Kinda' reminds me of a Winchester "W", that right?
LB
The seller is "Davey Joe". It is a consignment barrel, so NO Returns allowed. Cute, avoid this like the plague!
Wouldn't it have the earliest rear sight sleeve?
Just for comparison purposes, here is a (not very close) picture of the Springfield 05 barrel I have mounted on a 144,408 SA rifle.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tandard-20.jpg
Hi. I am the infamous Davey Joe. I have never been on this forum before and it was pointed out to me through an email that I had a possible faked early dated 03 barrel listed for sale. A quick overview of what I do would be I sell collectible firearms (mainly on consignment) and I have no specialty - just that the item is not currently manufactured and has a collectible value. My personal interest in collecting is WWI and WWII firearms and my expertise is in the less common European area. I have dealt with guns ranging from Mannlicher Shoenauers to Vickers Dutch Lugers. I enjoy US guns, but am clearly no expert. On my auctions you may notice 100% positive feedback. Most of what I list is quite accurate, but as I list approximately 100 items per week and spend at least 4 hours a day packaging what I sell, about 2 hours taking pictures, about 3 hours cleaning items up and another 3 hours listing items plus I have a wonderful 10 year old that I enjoy spending every spare minute with and a beautiful wife of almost 25 years (yes she is supportive in my gun addiction). I think some of you can probably see some mistakes should not be considered a crime. I gave a closer look to that barrel and everything that has been mentioned is correct. I can see the indent (looking at a side view) where the original date was removed and a new date was applied. This was certainly not apparent unless you are looking for it or like you guys are experts. I am a bit curious why no one from this board emailed me on this auction and I had to find out about the matter in such a roundabout way. I have closed the auction as this barrel is clearly not something that should be up for sale. Anyway, I do state all sales are final, but if you can analyze my feedback you would realize that once in a while if I do make a mistake I clearly rectify it. Sometimes by buying the item back with my own money as consignees usually don't accept returns. I may not have a chance to check back on this forum in the near future, but I would appreciate if any of you have an issue with any of my auctions to email me through the auction site and I would always gracefully accept any comments and make any necessary corrections.
Dave
Dave: the guy who owns this barrel is involved in a criminal enterprise. YOU could certainly take an "aiding and abetting" charge, yourself. What is HIS story?
Thanks for your reply!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lietuva
I was very careful to accuse no one of fakery. I merely pointed out the barrel to forum participants and invited comments. I was aware, of course, that the barrel markings were fake. But, I had no reason whatsoever to suspect or believe that the fakery originated with you. Indeed, I defended your integrity in private conversations about the barrel.
Your remarks inviting private criticism are generous. Most sellers, however and unfortunately, take personal offense when the quality of their merchandise is questioned or challenged. I, therefore, sought to caution forum participants about the barrel rather than pursue confrontation or offense.
Removing the barrel from auction is honorable. The barrel, however, is still salable merchandise. The description, however, need only be modified to state that the markings have been re-engraved and the original place and date of manufacture were Springfield Armory in August, 1917.
Thanks again for your reply!
J.B.
I think we all make mistakes when we've sold something - it is how we handle those mistakes that makes a difference.. One of the reasons CMP has such a good reputation among buyers is that if they make a mistake (even if they are technically not required to do so), they correct it quickly and in about 99% of the cases, to the customer's complete satisfaction.
Thanks for the nice replies (I am taking part of the day off from work so had a chance to get back to the forum). The particular consignee of this merchandise buys items by the truckload from auctions and has no way to authenticate every single item and certainly not the time. I suppose 'aiding and abetting' in a criminal act is a good description for some people to say about me, but I wonder if a person who makes such assumptions (even after the fault has been acknowledged and rectified) 2000 years ago would have been willing to cast the first stone. By the way, thanks again. I will probably relist the barrel at an extremely low price and disclose everything the kinder posters have discussed.
Dave
I commend your response, sir. It is so different from the usual response we receive that I had to read it twice. I wish you success in your endeavors, sir.:super:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lietuva
You might want to look upon the forum as individuals that assisted you in correcting a listing, and you kindly responded to our effort, versus the usual vile response we get. I have on numerous occassions attempted to illuminate sellers that their wares, known or unknown to them, are not what they appear.:madsmile: I have received a collection of responses that I wouldn't want my grandchildren to read. Yours is refreshing, and restores my faith in the system.:beerchug:
Just for your information, I too was once placed in your position.:yikes: I bought a stock that was not what it was supposed to be, and later discovering I wasn't going to complete my project, I put that stock up for sale. The buyer discovered the discrepancies I was too uninformed to see, and I refunded his money at a loss to me. I felt very foolish at the time.:crying:
It happens to us too. By the way, I do "final sales" myself.
I thank you again for one of the better responses I have seen,
Jim:cool:
It seems to me that, I have seen this same barrel "up for sale" a year or so ago. Don't recall who had it, but it seems realllllly familiar.
I also have a report that the WL 14 steel lot # is associated with a SA 8-17 barrel whish was assembleled on a SA 665079 receiver as reported on CSP March 2004.
Other characteristics (problematric) that I see are:
For a 05 barrel (30-03), there is no original groove to accomodate the pin of the front sight which was originally pinned at the front of the spline.
RSFB is a solid & not of the 2-ring earlier style. At the rear there is no evidence on the barrel shoulder that there was ever a 2-ring base installed >> no longitudnal (anti-rotational) hole for the previous pin.
HTH <> DW :yikes::bash::nono: :cheers: :beerchug:
Other WL steel codes, related to barrel dates, I have are:
WL 120 (SA 12-20)
WL 110 (SA 6-21)
WL 116 (SA 9-24)
WL 130 (SA 6-28)
A roll die setup is a very sophisticated piece of machinery way beyond even the restorers who use hand engraving to restore, or in some cases replace, markings that have been removed.
The marking on the barrel in question appears to have been pantagraphed, as the points of the flame are rounded rather than sharp, and has no detail.
maybe not done by you, but at some time, this barrel was likely made into a 1905 barrel.
the date and martial markings were added by someone other then the military.
but done along tim ago.
i didnt see the squashed area..
You ask why nobody emailed you. I watch for fake accessories in Carbine, Garand, and M14. I have spotted thousands over the years. I never notify the seller because on eBay (I do not know about Gun Broker) the seller can submit a complaint that you are interferring with his sale, and eBay will take revenge.
Unless there is a financial connection between you and the seller, getting involved in a sale is potential suicide.
Like John, I have had mixed results in helping sellers. I can't say I have had a totally negative response. I do remember several thanking me and changing their descriptions to reflect my suggestions. In one case, the seller and I started emailing back and forth and we later started calling each other. We've turned into good friends.
The bogus "05" markings need to be carefully filed off. This barrel is very nicely done fake and will eventually be pawned off on some inocent buyer. The story associated with it, including the reference to Christ, stinks. Fake, fake, fake. Plain and simple. Get a small file and get to work!