1943 Maltby No4 Mk1 T F.M.P. marked

Questions on Maltby No4Mk1 T markings

Rifle is matching Bolt receiver Forestock renumbered and butt stock stamped numbered under butt plate. I pulled trigger guard and the trigger is still pinned to trigger guard (Not converted to No4Mk1/2).

I am looking at buy a 1943 Maltby No4MK1 T. It has very faint electro pencil No4MK1 (F) FTR and BC11309 serial number on left receiver above No4 Mk1 Stamped.
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244598441
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....2&d=1244597955

Left Butt socket has
/|\
M1943
K1
A BC
11309
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244598441

Right Butt Socket has
F.M.P. (Which I think might be Federation of Malaysian Police).

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244597958

Any help in Identifying the FMP marking would be appreciated.

I will try to post some more pictures later this week


Thanks,

Dave
daver1984@cox.net

"FMP" is thought to be Federated (States) Malay Police, but it is not 100% proven.

Malaysia is the source of large quantities of Enfields, both from Malay service and from former Commonwealth depot stocks that were disposed of locally.

I'd hazard a guess that a recent civilian owner has put those pads on the create a "4(T)". The rifle itself looks like a typical 1943 Maltby that has gone through a 1949 FTR (when UK refurbished most of its ex-WW2 rifles, but before they started converting them to Mk1/2, 1/3). Although some Maltbys did become early 4(T)s without all of the later "standard" 4(T) markings, I don't think any of them went through a standard factory FTR - 4(T)s were serviced separately within the depot system. I'd take a very close look to see if any of the 4(T) inspectors' marks are present....

Daver1984. I agree entirely with Thunderbox. I have never seen a genuine Maltby 4T dated after 1941 (I guess there may be a few genuine 42 dated examples somewhere). The pads do not look sufficiently well fitted to be genuine. Apart from on Canadian set-up rifles you NEVER see gaps round the rear pad screws; on genuine rifles the countersinks are always too small for the screw heads & the screws are always 'faced off' to leave them flush with the surface of the pad. Additionally the rifle has a shelved receiver ledge rather than a radiused one. Again, only the LB conversions had this feature, with a consequent modification to the bottom of the rear pad (angled rather than radiused). Note the genuine 1941 conversions have the radiused receivers/pads. It's up to you, but I'd advise you proceed with caution......

ATB

Need advice Dave.......... I'd say proceed with caution too! It's these minor differences that eventually made H&H select their rifles from ONE source only. And after 1941, it definately wasn't Maltby!

Thanks to all for the information and I will proceed with caution.

Rifle is import marked under Barrel. CIA
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244676356.

Rifle came from Century with scope pads mounted, rearsight altered, with cheekpiece and mid sling swivel as one of thier scopeless snipers not as one of thier repro snipers.

I am posting some more pictures

Thanks again Dave

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

Yes, you can see the rear pad has been butchered to make it fit the receiver; there's no indexing mark on the under side of the barrel; the front pad screws are wrong. FWIW I think the pads are probably genuine, but there's no way they went on to that receiver in 1943. I suspect the rear sight may also be genuine.....(IMHO).

ATB Happy (careful) Hunting!

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I forgot to show the swivel screw and cheekpiece

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244770107

Cheekpiece seems to be set allittle back. Only one set of screw holes in buttstock under cheekpiece.
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244771846

I can seem to make out a "T" in this photo between the screw and the rear pad (Perhaps just wishful imagination on my part).

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....1&d=1244674328

Also, the barrel is free floated no contact with handguards. I can move it freely with action secured to forestock. Both bands are tightened down and forestock does not move.

If this was a rifle sent to Malaysa. Could thier "amourers" have had something with current state of this rifle (again some speculation on my part).

Also wondering concerning M1943 as snipers. Peter's book shows two M1943 and a M1944 in the action markings section (Pages 86 and 87)

The hunt continues.

Thanks again to all for the insight.

Dave Rocha

Dave,
Yes, you'll see 1943, 44 & 45 dated rifles, but they'll all be BSA manufacture (apart from the relatively few Long Branch conversions). The cheekpiece looks like it could be one of mine & the swivel is right.
ATB

The number stamped at the stock wrist is the rifle's serial number, shouldn't this be where the scope's serial number is stamped?

Harry, Yes, you're quite right.

ATB

The cheekpiece, scope pads, and guard screw swivel are all reproductions produced at NoDak Spud in Minnesota and assembled on bog standard No.4's in St. Albans, VT. Caveat Emptor!

Brian, was this the outfit that were using metric screws instead of BA's? That's another pretty good sign because so far as I recall, metric 4BA screws are a bit on the rare side.............!

To be honest, I haven't a clue what type screws they used at Century Arms. It looks like a variety in the pictures. I've never had one of the cobbled up rifles through my shop.

I've got a personal '43 date BSA/H&H "T" on the website now that I restored years ago. You coached me on fitting the forend and serviced the Mk.II scope. It was one of my personal favorites for shooting, is sighted in and range ready. I wish someone would give it a good home. Of course, it's considerably more expensive than a Century Arms conversion but you get what you pay for and it's advertised honestly as a BDL FTR. Take care.

Brian,
Superficially at least, the front pad looks quite good in the photos. Have you ever measured up any of these copy body pads? Also the swivel is complete with the thinly stamped broad arrow, exactly as on many of the wartime originals (even same style). Are they as good as they look & would they stand up to the late Graham Smith test?!

ATB

Roger,

I've never measured a set of their pads but guess what, I have a set here as supplied by the owner of the company a few years ago. You're welcome to them as I've never had a need and I'll bring them over when I come. I phosphated them as they were in the white when I received them.

Looking again at the guard screw swivel on the subject Maltby rifle, I'd say it's an original, not one of NoDak Spuds'. The screw slot is notably buggered too. He did make repro guard screw swivels too though and I have two here if anybody needs a decent repro. They don't have the Broad Arrow stamp on them and were also supplied in the white so I've since phosphated and painted them with Suncorite 259. See you soon.

Brian

Thanks Brian. I'd love to have a look at them, just out of academic interest.
Looking forward to seeing you this side of the pond very soon!

ATB

When you're here, come and have lunch at our mess at Warminster. But try not to bring Roger!

Brian - bring me one of those T's you've got for sale. Shouldnt be a problem in 'hand luggage'
Cash on collection - $ or £

At £1 = $1.63 its worth looking again at importing them, especially if you 'hand carry' with no shipping cost ?

Roger, the pads are yours. I'm looking forward to the trip.

Peter, I apprecitate the invite and will certainly take you up on it.

Alan, If it were only that easy. Shipping them over isn't that difficult but you have to do your part first and it'll never get done in a weeks time.

Well, I bought the rifle and have it mated with a 1943 No32 MKI scope.

I have just shot it to rough zero. I will have it out to a proper range to see what it can do.

The scope is one that I got that was little more than a tube, parts and a prayer. I sent it off to Warren (Thanks:thup:) for a complete rebirth. He did an excellent job.

She looks great and I am very happy.

Thanks again to all for your input and thoughts on this rifle.

Dave


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065262

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065223

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065298

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065332

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065365

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065409

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1248065002

Dave, check the outer screws on the front pad, it looks like it is only held by the middle screw, other two dont look like they are doing anything,
make sure they are in the thread, was,nt that clear on the pics, as this can make the difference between a good day and a bad day on the range, i know from experiance when i made my repro No4T, it was only when i removed the scope that i found the problem, and it was the screws on the front pad, after 5 -10 rounds i had lost zero.

Bigduke6

Thanks for the info I'll keep an eye on it next time I'm at the range.

Dave

What does the barrel registration mark look like? Does anyone have a pic? Was it done to all T's? cheers chaps R

Assisting the gentleman by telling him it is an unwise purchase is admirable. But, should we go into detail as to why so that the next fake will be better?

Confused!
First time I've posted on this site or any other come to that so bear with me.
I read with intrest all the comments bouncing back and forth, but have
become a little confused with the Maltby 4T post 1941 issue.
I consulted my green bible on all things 4T (Great book by the way Peter) having remembered the evolution of a 1944 Maltby No4 (BJ 17289) transported from yorkshire in the summer of 1944 to H & H for transformation to 4T, Emerging resplendant on Thursday 20th October 1944 fit for active service. The same chapter ( chpt 6 page 31) describes the manufacture of the rear pad stating that they were of rounded or chamfered to suit body profile, before being sweated and screwed to the receiver (Drawing D.D.E 2441/3 for part CR508 rear pad supports this).
Chapter 18 (page 98) of the good book details the conversion of a Maltby 4T 43 vintage to an L8a2(T) trails rifle at the RSAF Enfield in 1971.
So Guru's out there can you please help put the matter straight Maltby 4T's post 41 yeah or Neah?